It is funny watching UKIP imploding in Wales and it will be interesting to see if they parachute any of their "big names" in to stand as "list" candidates such as Neil Hamilton
Raising of the tax threshold meaning less tax for those on the lowest incomes, Amendments to inheritance tax thresholds removing a large number of middle class family's from a tax that is supposed to tax the super rich, a period during there first term where we were the fastest recovering economy in the EU, a refusal to allow an EU bank charge that would potentially remove our competitive edge in financial markets, an attempt to cut our spending and implement changes to future borrowing to live more within our means as a nation. As I said, there are things I agree with and others I don't, for example in certain areas the cuts were too savage and implemented too quickly having adverse effects that could otherwise have been avoided or minimised. One other thing RE the NHS, Labour did plenty to get the ball rolling down that route. Terrible decisions by labour about the NHS.
It's interesting that apparently the strongest UKIP support in Wales is in Anglesey and the Llyn Peninsula - the areas with the least migration. Whereas the areas with the most - the South Wales cost between Swansea and Newport, and particularly the 3 cities Swansea, Cardiff and Newport is where you see the most pro-refugee, anti-UKIP feeling, and the most migration.
I think this bit is a bit misleading, as that was only after we had been taking into a double dip recession and other countries (such as Germany) had made good recoveries, that we started to recover, so while we were the fastest recovering, it was only because other countries recoveries were slowing down (as they'd already recovered), while ours had only recently stopped going backwards. Hardly a glowing endorsement! Nice to see you're all for maintaining our banking sector and financial powerhouses, as is Farage, it's good that they are competitive (more than competitive, one of the biggest in the world) and obviously they bring money in, but considering this sector was a key player in the crisis (not the only one though) and they don't pay as much into the exchequer as they should, then a bit more regulation should surely be a good thing, rather than the current model? And having bank charges rather than charges to citizens/the poorest should surely be sensible, at least in the short term? If you don't want borrowing, then why are you mention a government that has borrowed more money than the previous couple of governments? And has increased the national debt?
@paragraph 1 - my point was that there have been periods where it has gone fairly well and others where it hasn't during the time they have been in power. However considering the circumstances under which they took power it was always going to be a shaky time regardless of which party got in. I have to say I preferred there approach when having to work with the Lib Dems lol @paragraph 2 - I'm all for making sure people and organisations pay in there fair share, but I'm not in favour of charges forced upon us by the EU which would have the immediate effect of damaging our competitive advantage over other countries. Again though, this was just an example of something the Tories did that I agreed with rather than a statement on our banking system! Clearly regulation is needed to avoid similar failures to those during the banking crisis. @paragraph 3 - I was referring to the proposed idea of limiting future governments borrowing with the second part of that sentence and with the first I did clarify that they have "attempted" to cut our spending. You've also ignored the first thing I mentioned which was the raising of the tax threshold which I assume is because you agree that was a good thing to do, so even you agree with some areas of there economic policy
No I ignored it because while I disagree with it I know that you agree with it and we've had a long discussion about it previously, it's a complex issue with lots of factors and I didn't really want us to argue about it. Fair enough if you like that, I don't. @paragraph 1 - That's a weird response. My statement was to show that things haven't and aren't actually that good with the economy under the Tories. And that instead of a smooth recovery we're seen a double dip recession, record levels of borrowing and debt, a stagnated recovery, followed by the longest economic recovery on record - EVER. Of course, the economy couldn't keep shrinking, and needed to recover at some point, but you only need to compare it to our neighbours to see how poorly we are performing, and how long it is taking us to recover. Cost of living has risen, living standards have fallen, wages in real time have plummeted. @paragraph 2 - I'm not sure I understand the difference between the UK ensuring someone pays their fair share and the EU ensuring someone pays their fair share? @Paragraph 3 - but they've clearly failed, spectacularly at this. It's like me saying I like the Monster Raving Loony Party because they promise to give every person £100,000. They won't do it, they haven't done it - indeed they've done the total opposite, but they did promise it...
I know you disagree RE inheritance tax, but the first thing I mentioned was the raising of the tax threshold, I.e, the level at which people begin to pay tax. I can't imagine there is anyone who thinks its a bad thing to tax our lowest earners less... @pargraph 1 - that all completely ignores the situation we were in, the crisis was unprecedented and so comparing the recovery from this to other fluctuations in the economic boom/bust cycle in history isn't a fair comparison. Particularly when coupled with things outside the governments control such as EU bailouts, PFI debts etc... as I've said I don't think they've got it all right and I don't agree with certain decisions they've made but they've also done things I do agree with. You've also not listed any actions taken by the Tories that you think have lead to the issues you are raising, what are the causes and which of them are attributed to the decisions made by the Tories? Your simplifying the subject massively. @paragraph 2 - ok, firstly my point was in regards to a specific action by the Eu which the government blocked, not an argument about the EU vs the UK setting taxes, however the difference is massive and blindingly obvious. The UK will make decisions based on what is in our best interests, the EU won't. @paragraph 3 - have they failed spectacularly? What are the causes of increased borrowing or national debt? I don't think they've done nearly as well as they'd have you believe, I also don't think they've done as poorly as some try to make out. Just pointing out a higher national debt doesn't take into account any factors at all that could have effected the situation. Its like me having an ice cream shop and selling more ice cream and automatically assuming I must have turned into a pro salesman rather than that a school just opened up down the road, or that there's a new trend for ice cream. Bit of a random example but you get the point, without the causes and reasons, of which economics tends not to be straightforward, it's just a pointless statistic. I'd also once again like to point out that I said I agree with some areas of there economic policy and disagree with others. In fact I didn't even mention Tory economic policy until you pressed me on it. All I'd said to start was that labours ideas are ridiculous
Going into every point which the Tories have done to cause a double dip recession would take quite awhile - the economy is a massive and complex subject. However writing it off as Labour's fault (which many, including Cameron, have done repeatedly). Not investing in the economy when it was critically needed, helped deepen the crash in this country. Not just operating austerity policies, but diving head first after them regardless of the consequences dramatically deepened the recession and our ability to recover - as has been proven by leading economists. Not reforming and regulating the banking sector following the crash, and selling off public assets and shares in certain banks for a pittance wasn't a great idea either. Using draconian policies that put the burden of cuts on the poor, leading to less sales, less commerce and a dramatic increase in repossessions, homelessness, suicides, court cases ect. While turning many economically active people into those relying on benefits, and not spending barely anything. Cutting back the Public Sector while at the same time maintaining the level of out put the department's were expected to produce. Then giving out multi-million and billion pound contracts to multinationals like ATOS, G4S and Clearwater to undertake the work - simultaneously over-charging the government, underpaying their staff and under performing on targets. Wasting millions on projects like the DWP IT project and the benefits reform project. Putting a coke addict android like Osbourne in charge of the Treasury!!! Bungling the rail electrification projects. Cutting investment in public infrastructure projects in their 1st 4 years in government, when that was the critical time to increase investment. Kissing goodbye to the steel industry. Delaying/Blocking tidal lagoon projects in Swansea, Cardiff & Anglesey. Allowing multinationals to give out hundreds of thousands of zero hour contracts so they can reduce overheads and the government can harp on about low employment figures, while wages drop and cost of living increases.
That is very true. Some times when I've been to Llandudno or Porthmadog it's been like an episode of Brookside!
Some of that I agree with and some I don't entirely agree with but you've also raised a handful of points which definitely fall into my disagree with the Tories category. For example I already raised the issue of how the government went about implementing the cuts and the adverse effect it had so I agree with you there. Public procurement is horrendous, it was under labour it still is now. That isn't unique to the Tories at all. Selling off public assets had also started under Labour who shipped out our gold at rock bottom prices, I wasn't happy when Labour did it, not happy with the Tories doing it (Royal Mail springs to mind). The millions wasted attempting to make the benefits system more efficient is pennies in comparison to the billions the poor decisions regarding PFI under labour have cost the country. As I've said all along, they get some stuff right, they get some stuff wrong, sometimes I agree with there decisions other times I don't.
Annoyed the **** out of me that they weren't challenged on this during the election. Labour caused it with the relaxation of banking regulations and overspending? That's odd, as the Tories wanted even more lax regulation and promised to match that spending. It was repeated like a mantra and people ate it up. Long-term economic plan, hardworking families, cleaning up Labour's economic mess, controlled immigration, the Great British people... All nonsense, but it works like an advert. Elect a PR man and don't be surprised that's what you get.
Labour ****ed up plenty to do with the economy, let's not pretend they didn't have a hand in some serious mistakes. The problem is that the Tories made it out like labour caused the global financial crisis which is obviously a load of rubbish. Both are as bad as each other, no idea how people can't see that.
Labour made loads of **** ups, but the Tories backed all of them, then claimed to be appalled at what they'd done. I agree that they're both ****e, but UKIP are just another bunch of the same tossers, frankly. Farage is basically an old-school Tory.
What UKIP do offer however is a direct way to show discontent with the EU, discontent with the main parties and support for policies which would benefit our entire political system such as proportional representation, the ability for constituents to remove an MP etc.... It'll be interesting to see how they reinvent themselves after the referendum.
It's a protest vote, but it involves the promotion of some very dodgy ideas and individuals. The current choice in the UK is pathetic. Loonies, arseholes or some mixture of the two.
This. They backed Labour right through those polices at the time and then used it against them when it all went Tits up. Now they use it as stick to bash everybody with under the banner of 'austerity' whilst making massive cuts to public services and doing next to **** all to address the gaping holes in the economy from big corps not paying their fair share of tax.
