Saints are 'increasingly hopeful' on Victor Wanyama signing a new deal at St. Mary's

Going back to Vic, he now has his chance to create a new league record. No player has been sent off four times in the English league season. He is in rare company with the three cards as it stands, with only six others having achieved this. Dennis Wise got an honourable mention on Football Weekly, as having been sent off in a pre-season friendly, a league game, an FA Cup game, and a League Cup game all in the same 98/99 season - sort of making four. Plus he returned from one suspension to get sent off in his return game.

 

http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/southampton/news/41975/

Article suggesting that Saints fans may have fallen out of love with Wanyama. I must admit that I don't see him as essential as I did when Morgan left and at the moment he is a liability. How can a manager plan strategies around the team when one may disappear in the middle of the match....better for Koeman to redesign his game plan around other players. It is strange because we were all feeling positive when this thread started....am I alone in being disenchanted.

 

I think there was more to it when Lallana left which is why it upset a lot of Saints fans. All the tapping of the badge and quoting his liking for the club and where they were going and his so called life long commitment to the club. It really would be hard to believe a player has the kind of loyalty that Letiss showed these days. How many people would have believed Keegan would come to a team like Southampton for the kind of money Saints payed. So some players are not motivated just by money but they are few and far between.

 

Lallana is a special case because of his rapid U-turn....we felt betrayed by one of our own. No one likes to be duped. Also the reason why Poch still holds a special place in our hearts I suspect we are more accepting now that players will come and go in a controlled manner. Really helps if they annoy us like Victor....we are being inoculated against his leaving.

 

I agree that its not always just the money and the Lallana thing was annoying in hindsight.

However, one of the points I am making is that Tiss didn't stay at Southampton out of loyalty. He stayed because it suited him and his preferred lifestyle both on and off the pitch.

Loyalty implies that even though you know that you'd be better off somewhere else, you stay simply because you feel you owe the club something. Tiss obviously liked it at Southampton and it suited him. Maybe it is semantics but I see it as something different.

It was never about money for Tiss. You could make the same case for Keegan or Shearer going to Newcastle. When you hear Shearer talk about scoring the record-breaking goal for Newcastle you get a good sense of the emotion and his love for the club. If you love something, or someone(!), you don't stay out of 'loyalty'.

 

http://playingfor90.com/2016/02/10/southamptons-victor-wanyama-shows-no-remorse/

Victor claims he is just unlucky.

 

Without accepting his poor tackling and decision making, he won't learn or improve.
Worrying

 

He isn't brainy enough to realise that.

 

Then how come there are games when one almost knows he's going to get booked or even sent off, just by looking at his playing? Guesswork?

 

My only concern would be that a poor disciplinary record might count against getting top dollar. It's worth remembering that up to the stupid tackle, he was having a really good game. If he can sort himself out then I wouldn't mind him signing a new contract, but if he goes, then sobeit.

 

I watched the whole game again earlier today on FootballOrgin paying particular attention to Vic's part in it all. To say he was being set up for at least a yellow by Payet is no exaggeration. There were at least 3 fouls which Clattenburg gave against Victor which were questionable, well before the incident where he was sent off. Tussles for the ball resulting in Payet suddenly throwing himself to the ground all obviously accumulated in the ref's head until Vic obviously just let the red mist descend and he went after Payet when he had lost the ball to him.

I think this is the problem with our Victor: he has been worked out by too many teams and they know how to press his buttons. He actually played a good, solid game on Saturday but allowed himself to be wound up by the constant gamesmanship. He strikes me as a simple soul who is genuinely shocked by that side of the game, and unless he can be coached and counselled in the proper way to deal with it he is always going to have problems.

 

ehhh, I'll cut Wanyama some slack for those comments. It sounds like his words are being twisted a bit.

I think the quotes are in the context of him being a dirty player or losing his emotions on the pitch. He's just saying his tackles were mistimed as opposed to malicious. He's been "unlucky" in the sense that he didn't meant to tackle hard or injure anyone or get carded on any of them. There is genuine debate and not just from Saints supporters over whether he should have received a straight red last game.

He is "unremorseful" I think in that he feels he doesn't need to apologize to opponents for his actions or style of play. That's a little different from being unremorseful about the impact you have on your teammates.

In the larger picture, while he may have been "unlucky" as far as receiving calls, Koeman put his finger on the issue-- which is that those were unnecessary gambles to take in the first place. You give the ref enough opportunities to red card you, sooner or later you get burnt.

He did apologize after his other red cards. I don't think there's much point in apologizing to Saints yet again. At some point, it just becomes meaningless. He needs to actually fix it, not just keep saying "oops, my bad." Hopefully, he can work with Koeman and get straightened out.

I don't think Wanyama is a liability to the team. He averages a red card every seven starts, I guess. So if he were a substitute, he could maybe go a whole season without a card, or even if he did get one as a non-starter him missing a few games isn't a big deal. And he would certainly be an impact player coming off the bench.

It's more that he may not be useful enough to command the wages he will want. At this point, I think the red card thing is a genuine issue if for no other reason that he now has a reputation so even if he tackles a bit smarter he might still get sent off too often. And I don't think you can ignore the fact that he pseudo-boycotted a match and may have cost us Europa. You can blame his agent, but unless he changes agents there is no guarantee it won't happen again.

I don't mind if the club re-signs him. But I also don't mind if they sell him. I trust them to know best. That's pretty much been my stance all along.

 

A very balanced response to an issue which has provoked a lot of debate.
I think a key factor here is that I have never seen Victor play with any malice.
Its tough staying level-headed in a competitive sport when you so desperately want to win.
I'm sure a lot of us have been there at some point.

 

I can sneer. It comes naturally.

 

You also snivel rather well I've noticed.

I assume these two things go together.

 

I haven't watched the whole game again yet, particularly looking out for Victor. What I will say is having looked at the straight red foul, Payet becomes a bit theatrical even then, afterwards clutching his leg, when there was actually little in the way of boot to leg contact.

 

Clattenberg sent him off against Norwich in the previous Saints game he was Ref

 

It's not just the rashness, of the tackle, but the area of the field in which it happened.
Had this, and the second yellow at Norwich, been a yard or two outside our 18 yard box, and our defence missing, then I could accept that he had to try to get to the ball. Unfortunately, both offences were in the middle of the pitch, with no direct threat on our goal, so it is very difficult to understand why he did what he did.
I saw, on another forum, someone say "He's still only 24", as if that was in anyway an excuse. It's not. He is old enough, and experienced enough, to know when he should, or shouldn't, take such gambles.

 

I agree with your first point, but not necessarily the second point. The tackle Saturday was un-necessary but not in the same way the Norwich one was. He looked to me to genuinely to be trying to win the ball. He cocked up because he lost possession. 30 year olds can do that just as much as 24 and 18 year olds.

 

I certainly complain a lot as it comes with being a miserable old git however I do not whine tearfully. Big boys don't cry.