Beefy, thats exactly my point - they are paying £200k for burnt out Irish pointers who have been fried to win their maiden point. Its what he buys that is the differentiator.
Oh I get that! But how many horses do they try to buy that they don't proceed with as they stick to a budget, quite a few I'd imagine! It's not like they get every single horse they go after, they'd often lose out to others who are happy to pay extortionate figures. It's well known Nicholls bought up pretty much everything going in the Arqana Sales, to pretty much the exclusion of everyone else. I'm sure Mullins & Kirk lost out on a few. We should therefore expect the next Douvans, Faugheens and Vautours to appear from Ditcheat very soon... Buying potential is clearly the first important step, but converting it into top class race horses is the most important part. And that's the part quite a few are struggling to match Mullins in, at the present time.
Faugheen is Irish bred, along with Don Poli and Annie Power among others. I still find it remarkable that Faugheen won a P2P. I don't mind the dominance as Blake alluded to also, it's not every year you get to see the stars currently among us and I bet in 5-10 years time when some of the divisions are looking really slack, many will be looking back to this current crop that ruled the roost and debating who was the greatest etc. Racing needs it's superstars to attract the masses and create publicity it otherwise would not. My main issue is the unbalance of Graded races, I hope those in power can have a look and work out some feasible way to wean down the weak G2/3's so the better horses will be forced to clash when the fewer soft races are there to spread them out.
spot on Dan the amount of times I heard last year in the lead up to Cheltenham off people how ya couldn't take the prices on the Mullins acca on that first day because they missed all the prices and you'd be crazy to do it now...yet when Annie Power fell they were all crying foul over what might have been for their bank balances
Willie Mullins certainly is 'good for the game.' Although he's always had tremendous support from his family, it's easy to forget that he's been training for 27 years now- and struggled to put together 8 horses when he first took out a licence. There's no doubt he's developed his trade progressively through surrounding himself with great and loyal staff- with no small measure of astute judgement. That's surely why Ricci and other wealthy owners approached him to train their horses. His success is therefore totally earned, and his unassuming, quiet, affable manner speaks volumes of the type of man he is. He reminds me somewhat of the Irish trainer, Tom Dreaper- from the sixties. They never brag but simply let their horses do the talking. How on earth could watching quality horses win at Cheltenham be bad for the game? Isn't that why we all drool on our betting slips come March?
Everyone here is missing the point in a way. The genius is Harold Kirk, ably supported by willie Mullins and paid for by ricci rich. It's not all about he French horses, the man is incredible and knows exactly what he's doing. He doesn't buy in auctions and very very rarely buys point winners as they are fully exposed and often burned out to win. The main danger is when he starts looking now prices will go up similar to Man City buying a young English striker so it's going to become a lot more expensive for RR over time but he still makes a lot of money from it and WM makes more from his % of purchase price and winnings so it will roll on until RR loses interest which I doubt he will for some time. The biggest danger to WM is Joseph Obrien who is being funded to make a big play in Irish jump racing and buying walk in the park is a big statement. JP is frustrated as spending 10x what RR pays yet getting 1/20th of the success so is changing approach. JP and Mullins had a big falling out and there is no love lost. JP wants to take him down.
You are quite right in the fact Kirk is a genius in buying these horses, but it is Willie Mullins who is doing an incredible job at training these horses and keeping them sound. You just have to look at how many of his stable stars are out with injuries compared to those at sicknote Henderson. The whole structure of that 'empire' is phenomenal and whilst these things go round in cycles, i'd say the domination from the Mullins yard is set to continue for a good while yet. JOB might get the horses to go to war with, but will he be able to maximise their potential? That is the question and I hope we see him have some success in the game, jumps racing needs rivalries and that would be a brilliant one to have. Similarly, I hope Nicholls, Henderson et al can find a way of getting horses to match the quality of those purchased for Mullins. Then we would have another halcyon period in NH racing.
Forgive my ignorance on the subject, but will JOB have a few ex flat horses from the "big boys?" And will those guys get into breeding big time, as they do on the flat?
Aidan O'Brien deflected all the praise on to his son after Ivanovich Gorbatov won at Leopardstown and, while Joseph might not have his own licence in time for Cheltenham, he is the one doing all the work with the jumpers behind the scenes. Team of about 70 He is running a yard at Owning Hill in Pilltown where an exciting team of about 70 - a mixture of jumpers, Flat horses and yearlings - are situated and it is a role he is relishing. He said: "I love what I'm doing at the moment. It's really enjoyable. I suppose I've been doing this for about a year now so am starting to get used to it. We have a lovely team of about 60 or 70 horses. "I missed the last chance to get my trainers' licence last year because I was at the Breeders' Cup but I hope to have it in the next few months. Whether I get it in time for Cheltenham I'm not sure. 'Ones to look forward to' "Ivanovich Gorbatov was good at Leopardstown but we have a few others I like as well. Outspoken might have won at Fairyhouse had he not made a mistake at the last but he picked up a little injury so we might keep his novice status for next season. "Best Kept Secret ran well at Punchestown and Edwulf looked like he was going to win a nice beginners' chase at Navan only for falling at the last. All of those are ones to look forward to." RP story
I’m actually a bit mystified by this thread. I wouldn’t say for one minute that Bill Mullins is dominant. He hasn’t won a Cheltenham Gold Cup, he hasn’t won a Champion Chase, he hasn’t won a World Hurdle, he hasn’t won a Hennessy Gold Cup (Newbury), he hasn’t won a Paddy Power Gold Cup, he hasn’t won a Ryanair Chase, he hasn’t won a Betfair Chase, he hasn’t won a Scottish National and I could go on. To use a footballing analogy with this CV he’s more Chippenham Town than The Arsenal. Mr Henderson would, of course, be The Arsenal as he’s classy, has a rich history of success and a guaranteed bright future, is idolised by his fans and respected by his rivals and does his job watched on by thousands of adoring types. Look, people, you will always have periods in racing when one trainer is doing ‘quite well’ and Bill Mullins can certainly wear that cap at the minute but he has some way to go before I’d describe him as dominant. And you can guarantee that if Rich Richtea woke up tomorrow morning and exclaimed, ‘I’m Rich Richtea and I want my horses trained by someone else’ the above mentioned cap could be taken off. And don’t think owners don’t wake up saying such things as history is full of such decisions...as Luca Cumani had the misfortune to discover only a few months back. What worries me, as I’ve said before, and what I think is very bad for the sport, is the fact that right now 3 owners (Rich Richtea, Gigginstown and that J.P. chap) are close to monopolising the sport at the top end and I can only see things getting even more controlled by those 3 in the years to come. Horses, in the main, just aren’t being transferred from the Flat anymore (due to increased opportunities on the all-weather or being sold for oodles to Australia, the Middle East or Hong Kong) and are emerging from either France or the British and Irish pointing field. And it’s no secret in these 3 spheres who the good horse are. And the top end ones are all being bought by Rich Richtea, Gigginnstown or that J.P. chap as they’ve the finance to outbid the rest. That to be is bad and putting the sport, due to lack of competition and predictability, in danger of terminal decline.
but they aren't outbidding the rest. Look at some of the crazy prices people have paid for horses that are in training with Henderson, Nicholls and Pipe. Especially the latter. If someone wants to pay a lot for a horse they can, but that won't win them the big prizes on its own.
"To use a footballing analogy with this CV he’s more Chippenham Town than The Arsenal." The Arsenal, Barney? That's a dubious analogy! Or maybe you think Nicky Henderson flatters to deceive as well. PS. Your reply smacks of jealousy, n'est-ce pas?
It worries me that JO'B doesn't know how many horses he has. 60-70! Surely he can count beyond 50 FFS.
Oui c'est vrai, but he's worried about Mr.Mullins. There are some rather odd people in this world who worship at the self-made shrine of living humans, and some who do likewise at the self-made shrine of dead racehorses, oder? All very weird. Think I'll stop worrying about it and make one of my Mum's favourite beverages, i.e. G&T, with a slice of lemon and just a sliver of ice!
I was thinking one of Henderson's most loyal owners, Michael Buckley,had quit the game as he never seems to have any runners. But lo and behold he had aa runner in an Irish bumper the other day in the care of Jessica Harrington. Has he deserted Sven Barrows? If so that will leave room for more of JP's horses (and Potensis). Talking of Potensis, they quite like splashing the dosh around?
Aren't Henderson and Jessie very close friends? I doubt Buckley's upped sticks in that way. Probably more likely to be spreading the wealth around a little.
