Evidence? Nope. It's speculation. Some people have tripped on shoelaces before and broken legs. Is that evidence that you would do the same? 'Successful manager' is a stretch nowadays too.
No, it's the evidence as I pointed out based on what happened at Liverpool after the Shankly and Paisley years and at Utd after the Busby and Fergie years. Your shoelace analogy is ridiculous. You could equally say that some people have choked to death on food before so that's a reason never to eat again !
Let's be clear... That's NOT evidence. When that sinks in that would be good. And good to see you're finally realising every one of these pointless scenarios are ridiculous.
The pointless scenario about shoe laces is ridiculous. Whereas the evidence that teams can struggle when they replace legendary managers is very real.
When it comes to United I'd put their bad transition down to Fergie himself, let's be honest, he left them with a right **** team, it was his talents that made them champs, but everyone who looked at the team he had could see how weak it was, so was genuinely surprising they managed to win the league and do well. The squad he left was average at best. In Arsenal's position, let's say Wenger leaves at the end of this season, he leaves behind a very very strong starting 11 with some decent back up squad players, which would need you would say 2-3 more additions, so I don't see a major dip like at United if we hire a top quality manager. In hindsight as well, though at the time many may have thought otherwise, the decisions for United's managers was not so good, it turns out Moyes was out of his depth and he was really only suited for a club like Everton rather than making the step up to an elite club, and then with LVG he's someone who's philosophy just doesnt get the job done in England. So it's a whole combination, leaving the proper squad behind, and ensuring you get the right manager, and I think any one of Klopp, Pep, Anchelotti etc would thrive at Arsenal with this team, no doubt about it.
It is evidence that teams can struggle when they replace long standing successful managers. The shoe lace analogy is just stupid.
If you're claiming that as evidence (it isn't) then there's just as much 'evidence' of clubs not struggling when they replace a manager. My shoelace analogy is stupid, I agree. It matches the intelligence of the idea that what you're presenting is 'evidence'. It's all stupid.
The evidence is that when Shankly/Paisley/Busby/Fergie left, the respective clubs struggled. Some clubs don't struggle, and actually do better, but this is usually when they've sacked a manager for doing ****. Not when they are replacing a hugely successful manager who has retired. I'm glad that you agree that your shoelace analogy was stupid. Trying to use it to compare the two situations was ridiculous.
It's clear you don't know what evidence actually is. But I suppose I'm glad you're agreeing that the lace analogy is as stupid as your supposed 'evidence'. All agreed, case closed.
I'm not agreeing that at all. I'm saying that it was stupid to compare never buying shoelaces again because somebody somewhere once fell over, with replacing managers that have had long successful periods at big clubs. The evidence is (and I'm afraid you're wrong) that with Man utd and Liverpool, on more than one occasion when they have done this, they have struggled. I'm not saying it's a given that the same will happen to Arsenal, but to think we'd be immune to it is simply naive.
Anyway, back on topic. 1/2 way through the season - the facts: 1. 3 points from top of the league. 2. 5th round of the FA cup. 3. last 16 tie with Barcelona in the Champions League.
Its weird that cini gets so aggressive and makes a ridiculous comparison to shoelaces/falling over just because Diego asked a hypothetical question about how fans would react if a new manager drastically changed style/format but the results suffered (in the short term) because of it. Seems a fair question, especially as he pointed to examples of this happening in the past. Not sure why the question is worthy of derision rather than answering the question?
Cini's overriding desire to argue against the bleedin' obvious, leads him to set a ridiculous scenario to try and posit a contrary stance.
Liverpool are clear evidence that replacing any long standing manager whatsoever at any club under whatever the circumstance will definitely result in failure. Indeed, after Paisley and Shankly had gone by 1983 Liverpool failed to win five more titles that decade. Indeed they only won four. What the heck went wrong? Why could not win five? This is concrete and obvious evidence that replacing Wenger will result in failure.
Had a bit of time to research now then? You will find they only started to decline when they needed to replace the squad, up to that point very little changed because as a club they had a philosophy (the boot room) whereby a new manager was already seeped in the way of the club and changed nothing. When the time came to change players things fell apart quite quickly. Name me a successful club that have had a long serving manager that didn't fall off once he left.
Lots of interesting points about this. But one thing is for sure. There is an inevitability about Wenger leaving, considering his age. Changing a longstanding manager undoubtedly has its pitfalls, but the reality is, that change is inevitable and so those fears need to be addressed. It's not really a question of if, but when. So perhaps the actual consideration for Arsenal is how best to manage that transition.
Yep, we made a pretty poor fist of it and have seen the result. I think it is something that needs to be planned at least 2 years in advance.
I think the biggest mistake was getting rid of one our most important infrastructure... the backroom staff. If there's a lesson to be learned, it's that you need a transition period where backroom staff integrate, work with the new guy and members of his staff, to familiarise themselves with club practises, players, everything. Even if that means working together for a whole season with clearly defined roles.
