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Off Topic The Science Only Thread

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by BBFs Unpopular View, Jan 25, 2016.

  1. astro

    astro Well-Known Member

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    Thread got restarted because of people speaking nonsense

    #thatwentwell
     
    #41
    Peter Saxton likes this.
  2. Red Hadron Collider

    Red Hadron Collider The Hammerhead

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    Of course he ****ing is <laugh>
     
    #42
  3. DerekTheMole

    DerekTheMole Well-Known Member

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    Either way, the one I used said cornflour on the box and created a non-Newtonian fluid. A quick google shows that here in the UK they are more or less interchangeable names in the shops. I guess if you buy something that says cornstarch you know it will work, whereas if you buy cornflour there's a chance that it will be the wrong stuff.

    From wiki:

    Corn starch ('cornflour' in the UK), the white, powdered starch of the maize grain
     
    #43
    Peej likes this.
  4. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    You're not wrong there<ok>
     
    #44
  5. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    The other thread was a mess, no blame assigned, it was a mess end of
    Keep schtum or go elsewhere or I'll bock you from the thread with my mod super powers :bandit: It has gone well actually thanks for pointing that out <ok>
    #mindoversettings
     
    #45
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
  6. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

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    The blood cells in blood would I guess make it a NNF, however its ability to act in a way to the cornstarch/cornflour mix would be debatable.

    The red cell count needed would make it almost impossible for it to be pumped around the body....trust me, I have had many emergency venesections due to high HB levels
     
    #46

  7. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

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    What more can be said about that?
     
    #47
  8. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    Just seen your edit, Cornstarch is starch from the plant, corn flour is ground up cornmeal I believe
     
    #48
  9. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    You and astro can **** off at this **** again <ok>
     
    #49
  10. DerekTheMole

    DerekTheMole Well-Known Member

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    Been looking into the differences since that last post and actually it looks like cornmeal is the flour, and cornflour is exactly the same as cornstarch

    EDIT: At least in the UK and according to my 'sources'

    *cough* wiki
     
    #50
  11. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

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    Easy tiger, I have made a very sensible post on here about blood and its ability to act in the same way as a custard/cornstarch/flour mix.
     
    #51
  12. astro

    astro Well-Known Member

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    Blood obviously isn't a non-Newtonian fluid like the corn mixture otherwise every time your heart pumped you'd have a heart attack

    It is non-Newtonian but in the other direction, applying pressure makes it thinner not thicker
     
    #52
  13. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    really, I make stuff with both and they are definitely not the same thing, I like to get my bake on now and then.
     
    #53
  14. DerekTheMole

    DerekTheMole Well-Known Member

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    Probably depends on the shops then?

    Wiki disambiguation says:

    Cornflour may be:
    So everyone's right.
     
    #54
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  15. Peej

    Peej Fabio Borini Lover

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    It has the ability to be, but the red cell count needed would kill you, hence the need for venesections for people with high red cell counts.
     
    #55
  16. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    I dont think that is accurate, blood plasma is a NNF apparently
     
    #56
  17. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    WIN! <laugh> I was only partially right it seems
     
    #57
  18. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    No tiger, either stay to the thread topic..ish or go elsewhere. Otherwise it ends up like that other pile of blahh <laugh>
     
    #58
  19. astro

    astro Well-Known Member

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    Non-Newtonian means a nonlinear relationship between stress and shear but there are two forms. The cornstarch is the example of fluid becoming thicker when you apply pressure, blood is an example of fluid becoming thinner.
     
    #59
  20. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    Have a read, I am reading it myself atm, so nothing to add as of yet. Even a thinning effect is still NNF btw

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130218092505.htm

    Blood is thicker than water – and blood plasma is, too
    Date:
    February 18, 2013
    Source:
    University Saarland
    Summary:
    Blood flows differently than water. Anyone who has ever cut themselves knows that blood flows viscously and rather erratically. The similarity between blood and ketchup is something not only filmmakers are aware of. Experts refer to these materials as “non-Newtonian fluids,” of which ketchup and blood are prime examples. These fluids have flow properties that change depending on conditions, with some becoming more viscous, while others become less viscous.
    Share:

    Total shares: 94
    FULL STORY
    Blood flows differently than water. Anyone who has ever cut themselves knows that blood flows viscously and rather erratically. The similarity between blood and ketchup is something not only filmmakers are aware of. Experts refer to these materials as "non-Newtonian fluids," of which ketchup and blood are prime examples. These fluids have flow properties that change depending on conditions, with some becoming more viscous, while others become less viscous. Blood (like ketchup) is a "shear thinning fluid" that becomes less viscous with increasing pressure and it is this that allows blood to flow into the narrowest of capillaries. The flow properties of water are, in contrast, essentially constant.

    Up until now it has been assumed that the special flow characteristics exhibited by blood were mainly due to the presence of the red blood cells, which account for about 45 percent of the blood's volume. Blood plasma was generally regarded simply as a spectator that played no active role. For decades, researchers have assumed that blood plasma flows like water. After all, plasma, the liquid in which the blood cells are suspended, consists to 92 percent of water. But results from researchers at Saarland University and at the University of Pennsylvania have now shown that plasma is a very special fluid that plays a crucial part in determining how blood flows. The results demonstrate that blood plasma is itself a non-Newtonian fluid.

    According to the study's findings, the complex flow behavior of blood plasma could play a crucial role with respect to vascular wall deposits, aneurysms or blood clots. The results from this research may well help to improve computer simulations of this kind of pathological process.

    The research team around experimental physicist Christian Wagner and engineer Paulo E. Arratia have studied the flow dynamics of blood experimentally. The work at Saarland University involved experiments in which the blood plasma was allowed to form drops inside a specially built apparatus equipped with high-speed cameras fitted with high-resolution microscope lenses to analyze drop formation. "Our experiments showed that the blood plasma forms threads, that is, it exhibits an extensional viscosity, which is something we do not observe in water," explained Professor Wagner. The plasma shows "viscoelastic" properties, which means that it exhibits both viscous and elastic behavior when deformed, forming threads that are typical of non-Newtonian fluids.

    The studies by Professor Arratia and his team at the University of Pennsylvania involved a microfluidic approach in which they developed a model of a microvascular system in order to study the flow properties of blood plasma. Their measurements showed that blood plasma exhibits a flow behavior different to that of water and that plasma can demonstrate a substantially higher flow resistance. "An important part of our study was developing microfluidic instruments sensitive enough to pick up the small differences in viscosity that are the signature of non-Newtonian fluids," explained Professor Arratia.

    Experiments performed by Professor Wagner's team in Saarbrücken also showed that blood plasma influences the creation of vortices in flowing blood. These vortices may facilitate the formation of deposits on blood vessel walls which could influence blood clot formation. In one of their experiments, the research team let plasma flow through a narrow channel of the kind found in stenotic (constricted) arteries or in a stent (a medical implant inserted into constricted blood vessels). The vortical structures were detected at the end, but also at the entrance, of the narrow channel and their formation is a direct result of the viscoelastic flow properties of blood plasma.

    The research at Saarland University was performed within the Research Training Group "Structure Formation and Transport in Complex Systems" funded by the German Research Foundation (DFG). The research at the University of Pennsylvania was supported by the US National Science Foundation -- CBET- 0932449.

    Original publication:

    M. Brust, C. Schaefer, R. Doerr, L. Pan, M. Garcia, P. E. Arratia, and C. Wagner (2013):

    "Rheology of human blood plasma: Viscoelastic versus Newtonian behavior," Phys. Rev. Lett., 110, 078305 (2013)

    DOI: 10.1103/PhysRevLett.110.078305

    http://link.aps.org/doi/10.1103/PhysRevLett.110.078305

    Physics (http://physics.aps.org/): Focus: http://physics.aps.org/articles/v6/18 (video)

    Contact:

    Professor Dr. Christian Wagner

    Department of Experimental Physics, Saarland University

    Tel.: 0049 (0)681 302-3003 or -2416; E-mail: [email protected]

    http://agwagner.physik.uni-saarland.de/

    Professor Paulo E. Arratia

    Department of Mechanical Engineering and Applied Mechanics, University of Pennsylvania

    Tel.: 001 215 746-2174; E-mail: [email protected]

    www.seas.upenn.edu/~parratia

    Press photographs are available at www.uni-saarland.de/pressefotos and can be used at no charge. Please read and comply with the conditions of use.

    Note for radio journalists: Studio-quality telephone interviews can be conducted with researchers at Saarland University using broadcast audio IP codec technology. Interview requests should be addressed to the university's Press and Public Relations Office (+49 (0)681 302-2601).


    Story Source:

    The above post is reprinted from materials provided by University Saarland. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

    Journal Reference:

    1. M. Brust, C. Schaefer, R. Doerr, L. Pan, M. Garcia, P. E. Arratia, and C. Wagner. Rheology of human blood plasma: Viscoelastic versus Newtonian behavior. Phys. Rev. Lett, 110, 078305 (2013) DOI: 10.1103/PhysRevLett.110.078305
     
    #60

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