It's not paranoia to see that the current government is eroding the rights of citizens and turning the USA into a nanny-State society. Do I seriously believe that the US government will turn or has turned on its citizens? Well, that is a tough question to answer. The federal government makes it difficult to be free of its reach, in violation of the State's rights portion of our Constitution. Bottom line: How do gun control advocates combat the argument that by banning gun ownership, the worst segment of society won't use them? If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns. There are also headlines being made of licensed carriers stopping slaughter in the streets and they commended for it, not indicted for their efforts. Those gun owners are responsible people. Just ordinary folks doing the right thing. Ask yourself, would Lee Rigby be alive today if a licensed gun owner had been there to stop those upstanding British citizens from knifing him to death?
That last paragraph is a disgrace to logic and does you no credit. Would the 20 under 7 year olds killed at Sandy Hook, to say nothing of the 8 adults, still be alive without paranoiac nutters scared of what their own elected government might or might not do to them whining on about their freedom to be shot by, and to shoot at, other nutters? Are you accepting any responsibility for those kids deaths? Likewise I am not accepting any responsibility of Lee Rigby's murder. Of course if his killers had access to guns, do you think they would have stopped at one? There is a libertarian argument for your position, but there is not a logical, humane or ethical one.
Let me address those points in the order you put them. Yes, it is paranoia to think that a government is eroding the rights of its citizens because it wants to curb gun law to save lives. You cannot be free of the reach of a democratically elected government, you VOTED for them, that's called DEMOCRACY. Were the recent atrocities in your schools committed by outlaws or by deluded individuals who had easy access to guns? The point of the shooting was when they turned themselves into outlaws. Lee Rigby would probably NOT be alive today even had a licensed gun holder been there as the action took place very quickly. Had a licensed gun holder been there, the outcome COULD have been more innocent lives lost. Interestingly enough, for someone who appears to condone gun carrying, your point re: Lee Rigby prompts me to ask you: Why didn't a licensed gun holder stop the carnage at Sandy Hook? I also find it interesting that you have not defended your points made in your original post, or on reflection do you admit that they were ill placed?
Most murders in the U.S. are committed with stolen weapons, not by the licensed owners. The deaths associated with accidents in the home should have been prevented by proper gun security. You can't throw in Sandy Hook in response to my Lee Rigby comments. That's just illogical and a clumsy effort to defend a position that, because of your nationality, you have been brainwashed to believe to be the true path. Americans are not dumb. We just walked a different path than you which has, for generations, included private ownership of rifles, handguns and other things that go "bang" when you use them. I like the freedom to choose how to defend the house and don't want rights taken away from me.
OK, You choose to ignore the points I have raised which proves to me that your last paragraph is untrue. Good luck with the old 'head in the sand' trick. If you cannot answer the points raised, ignoring them will see you through.
I know Americans are not dumb, I work there 3 months of the year and thoroughly enjoy it. To the extent that I take my family there on holiday. I'm one of the few on here who contradicts the knee jerk anti Americanism that regularly surfaces. The (many) Americans I know are decent, bright, positive people on the whole. I'm a cynic and a skeptic, it's ****ing hard to brainwash people like me. You missed the point - the illogicality of blaming you for Sandy Hook was a response to your inane argument about Lee Rigby. The gun laws in the US make firearms sensationally easy to get hold of for criminals, hence the amazing amount of gun crime. From 2001 to 2013 406,496 American died on US soil through gun violence. The number of Americans killed anywhere through terrorism in the same period was 3,308, including 9/11. If you think 400,000 deaths are worth your theoretical freedom to defend yourself against your own government, that's your right, but you won't find many persuasive arguments, aside from soulless libertarianism, to back you up. And I write that as someone who is at heart a libertarian.
Ergo, if there were less weapons in the hands of licensed holders, there'd be less available to steal, so there'd be less murders. Or am I missing something??
Yes you are. You are measuring honest people and criminals on the same scale. It doesn't work the way you wrote. The reality is that the criminals will always find ways to acquire weapons. Simply taking the guns away from responsible owners won't solve the problem of unregistered guns and their use on the (now) defenseless citizenry.
I'm in favor of background checks to weed out the criminal element and mentally unstable. Beyond that, I don't believe the government should overly restrict the ability of a person to purchase a handgun. Criminals don't go into the gun store, they go buy stolen weapons from a shady associate.
QPR New York is a far right Republican who should be living in a compound in the far reaches of South Dakota or where ever nutters live. Arguing with him/them is impossibel which is why the gun laws are never going to change.
Bit strange including this one, when it was the USA that was arming and training the Guatemalan security forces that did the killing.........
To be honest, shooting guns is a buzz and very much fun. I even did it myself last year in the States and shot an AK47, Glock pistol and an H&K MP5......just a shame a lot of people can't stick to paper targets and prefer to shoot animals, school kids and each other.
The lack of response from our stateside friend speaks volumes. Nobody minds a coherent argument, but to make rash claims without substance is unacceptable. I hope we have now put this to bed.
Surprised the hill billy's exist in places like New York. I would expect these sort of views from Alabama or Tennessee. Funnily enough, many of the places you mention New York have the same policy as the great United States of America when it comes to Corporal Punishment. Does that make the USA a commie country too? There's a way to enter a debate. Shoot first, take prisoners later. If this is your average American, think I'm a proud "commie".
As most of you all know, here in Australia, guns were banned after the Port Arthur massacre. I use to go shooting once a year on a property with a select bunch of men. ( I've always been very fussy who I went with ) I enjoyed the fact that I could spend some time, out on a distance farm, shooting rabbits or Roos ( they are a menace here and destroy farmers crops ). We'd clean up the rabbits and take them home in our special ice boxes. The Roo legs would be cut off and feed to the local dogs. The weekends were always planned, catering for every detail. Safety is paramount. The point I'm trying to make is that an organised bunch of guys or gals, should be able to enjoy a weekend away shooting. The government change all this. The law-biding citizens handed in their guns.The criminals didn't. Just before Christmas, it was stated on the radio that there are now more guns in Australia then before the handback ......... how can that be when law-biding citizens handed back all their guns ................ That is where the problem lies. So the good people have to suffer because of the bad. In saying that, I feel America needs to make some major changes to their current situation. Regardless of what if anything is achieved, it will take generations to implement.
Er, this didn't, well, happen Pro gun nonsense made up on the internet. Pick two countries with difficult pasts, make up some bullsh*t, no one will know it's not true. Don't insult our intelligence. ......
