Ahoy there F1 fans I trust you are all excited about 2011 and have been checking out the Ferrari F150 this morning. I wanted to start this thread to gets people perceptions/opinions on who they think is the real Lotus team in 2011. Is it the Tony Fernandes run Team Lotus founded in 2010 powered by Renault Is it the new black and gold Lotus Renault GP sponsored by the Road Car Manufacturer I would be really interested to know if anyone on here owns a Lotus and what their view is and they will be supporting
None are the 'real' team lotus, but I like what Tony and co did last year so will be supporting them out of the two Lotus'
out of the two, its Tony Fernandes and TEAM LOTUS for me. The team did fantastically well last year, and I think the way GROUP LOTUS has gone about things is just stupid. Now we have the "who is the real lotus" rubbish. Team for me. Hopefully they win this court issue.
I am still torn on this one. I like how Team Lotus started from scratch and they look like making good progress this year. However, the fact that the Lotus car company want nothing to do with them (which is harsh in my opinion) makes it very difficult for casual F1 fans to follow and screams of Farce. I also find myself having to defend the sport to non F1 fans and this doesnt make it easier. There is no denying that the Renault Lotus black gold livery is seriously cool though!
Casual F1 fans won't be able to make head nor tail of this one, thats for sure! I have the same problems defending F1 to members of my family (they think it's a contrived sport )and things like this don't make it any easier.
Personally, I support team lotus. Whilst they might be a true lotus team, they go about things in the right way, have impressed in their rookie season and come across as a 'nice' team. I personally feel that Group Lotus should have put their money behind team lotus. Ok, so theres a branding squabble, but why not forget it, plough the money into team lotus, and reap the benefits in advertising on a car with potential for the future? Personally, I feel Danny Bahar of group lotus wanted instant sucess, so went with the established team, in the hope they'd start to get some results. I saw an interesting point elsewhere about the Renault Livery. Because the livery is so synonymous with the JPS colour scheme, is it indirectly advertising a tobacco manufacturer, which is illegal in F1?
Think the majority are with Fernandes and Team Lotus on this one so far. Bahar has big plans for the brand but it seems to be a bit of a rush job, the amount of concept cars (which look awesome) that have been released recently is very ambitious. Interesting point about the Renault Lotus Livery but could the same also be said about the Red/White on Ferrari and the link with Marlboro? Though i think the mock JPS colour scheme is a lot more blatant.
As F1Juan said, none are the real lotus, but if I were to support one, it would be Team Lotus. Hopefully they will establish themselves as a successful midfield team this year.
I agree that neither are the real Lotus, but having said that are Mclaren the real Mclaren. Didn't they come into being is a similar way to Team Lotus? But Team Lotus get my support, I have never been a lover of either Renault or the Beneton Team before, so now that they are Lotus Renault its still the same to me. The Black and Gold livery did look great in the mock-ups, they will look good when racing.
Mclaren were bought out by ron Dennis's Project four and other investers such as Marlboro (hence why the cars have MP4 at the beginning - Marlboro Project 4) but still in essence they bought the original team and cars. Fernandes's Team lotus have no affiliation with the team that died in 1994 what so ever other than they bought a name. If anyone had a right to re-establish the team lotus it would be Lotus
El Bando - Team lotus DO have an affiliation with the team that ceased competing in 1994 (it never died or go bust as many seem to suggest). David Hunt was the owner of Team Lotus during its final two GP that it competed in, in the 94 season. He then withdrew Team Lotus from F1 but the organisation continued as a going concern. Fernandes bought this going concern including all its IP rights, World Drivers and Constructors titles and trademarks. This is much in the same way how Fiat own all Ferrari IP, trademarks etc.. Group Lotus have NOTHING to do with Team Lotus's achievements in the sport and are totally seperate entity that just happens to have a similar name and was founded by the same individual. Group Lotus make road cars (and occasionally raced them) however have no history of competing in any open wheel category of motorsport.
Thats my point, the history has been bought. Ferrari is still the original Ferrari team, McLaren is still the original Mclaren team. So if Ferrari collapsed and the F1 team went out of business but the road car division went on. Then 14 years later some random from Bolivia desides to create a team called Ferrari racing under the Bolivian flag, painted yellow and licenced by the Ferrari road car division. But then Ferrari racing decide to turn there back on there licencers and by the Scuderia Ferrari name from a mate of Enzo Ferrrari which angers Ferrari Cars who decide to sponser a team under the italian flag and paint the cars red. Which is the real Ferrari??
The Renault team are the real Lotus. The Malaysian team just brought naming rights to manufacture a fan base and open up advertisement opportunities. Lotus-Renault GP are owned by the car company, they're using the F1 team to promote their road cars in the same way Ferrari do, and will hope to use that knowledge and technology to improve their road cars.
Absolutely Glorious, Kubica recently said: "I think Lotus is our sponsor. At least from what I know it is a sponsor. So I could also say it is my dream to drive for Total. I think it would be different if Lotus owned the team and were fully involved into the team. It's a good partner to have and they have high ambitions. It looks promising."
Lotus are more than a sponsor, they own 25% of the team (Genii own the remaining 75% while Renault own 0%), the only reason they can't rename the team is because Team Lotus keep blocking the move, although ironically they'd still be named Lotus Renault GP, it's just Renault would be the engine supplier rather than the team name, and Lotus would be the team name instead of the title sponsor. Kubica's probably sick of all the politics and that's why he said what he said, to nip all the questions in the bud. To be fair I'm sick of it as well.
"Ferrari is still the original Ferrari team, McLaren is still the original Mclaren team." Ferrari bears little resemblence to the team founded by Enzo Ferrari in 1929. Ferrar S.p.A and all its IP rights, trademarks and achievements were BOUGHT by Fiat who ultimately decide how best market and leverage the brand. Likewise, McLaren bears virtually no resemblence to the team founded by Bruce McLarenin 1966 who then passed over ownership to Ted Mayer. Tyler Alexander also BOUGHT into the team. Ted Mayer was then coerced by his then sponsor (Philip Morris) into merging with Ron Dennis Project Four Formula 2 team. After a relocation most of the original team's staff left the team and the organization is culturally very different to the one that was originally conceived. Again, in both the above examples - ownership of all IP rights, trademarks and the overall brand was BOUGHT by new parties. Team Lotus is no different. David Hunt was the previous owner and passed these rights on to Fernandes. Group Lotus have NOTHING to do with the old F1 team yet are attempting to pass themselves off as some kind of continuation of Team Lotus (hence the JPS livery), and coincidentally have retracted statements about owning any share of the Renault F1 team. They have an option to purchase a stake over the next 2 years but are currently purely a sponsor and nothing more.
No they aren't and no they don't. Group Lotus may have ambitions to buy into the Renault team, but they currently own 0% while Genii own 100%, having bought the remaining shares from Renault. Group Lotus are nothing more or less than title sponsors to the Renault F1 team. They have been trying to pass themselves off as the real Lotus, by such tricks as sticking big' Lotus' logos on the cars, pinching the Black & gold idea and re-branding their headquarters with lots of promotional material about the Lotus F1 heritage that they actually have nothing to do with (Team Lotus never having been a part of the sale when Proton bought Group Lotus, the road car manufacturer). The real culprit in all of this seems to be Bahar.
