Match Day Thread West Ham v Liverpool

He looks nothing like the player we saw at Southampton. Unlike Lovren and Lallana where is was obvious we wasted money, I had high hopes for Clyne. I think he will improve, but I think Flanno will be putting a lot of pressure on him soon.

Also a mention to Smith, despite Moreno looking fairly solid/average, his 10 minute cameo when he came on for Moreno made him look a level above imo.

 

Does it not concern you the amount of players that are good at other teams, come to you and turn ****, then move and look good again?
Maybe it's something you do to them or the way you play?

 

Trebs..you are generalising when saying we are throwing the players under the bus as if they all came in one transfer window...as you can see by this thread we all have our individual players we love to hate but the fact there are about 8 named most weeks overall tells you that we believe they aren't good enough and there are two many names being mentioned.

Todays Team

Mignolet
Clyne
Sakho
Lovren
Moreno
Can
Lucas
Firmino
Coutinho
Ibe
Benteke

Lallana
Allen
Smith

Now forget price and the fact the majority have a season under their belt or at the very least moved from a PL club.

Name the players above you think are championship or even top 4? If we did a thread saying x and x would get in a City, Arsenal or even Spurs team, you'd all be on talking about delusions...

The majority of this squad were here last year and while he may have headed off the pavement himself they pushed BR under that bus you talk about.

I said before his appointment that Klopp would get a longer by ball than the players as they got here first. Yes within the group I'll be patient with some players more due to only getting here this year or being young but the spine.....has no spine IMO. They are the common denominator: I'll be damned if they get to hide behind another manager for their lack of effort, intelligence and courage.

I may not agree with some of his choices over the coming months but I can't find fault with his idea that the bare minimum required to put on our shirt is 100% effort..No way you could argue that was shown today.

If the players in the squad don't give a **** as a default (2 managers now) then what tactics or instruction can he impart?

Like Rodgers he gets to build his own team then I'll judge him as a whole...but a good chunk of these players have their cards marked for me for not giving the bare minimum.

 

Only makes sense if we had one manager throughout so unless you can point me to radon gas it's not true.

Oh and list me the players moved on that became good again...I'm finding it hard to remember them.all..

 

Recently, Johnson, Carroll (when fit), Borini (much better than he was for you), Torres (getting back to near his best at Atletico, I know Chelsea were in between but he was **** in his last few months with you you). That's just off the top of my head.
Almost every player you buy I see threads saying how good he is and what he is going to bring to the team, too often I later see posts saying A: he cant step up, B: you were ripped off, C: he doesn't fit your "style" etc, etc.

 

Johnson looks a little bit better I grant you in a good Stoke side.

Borini???a striker that has scored 2 goals.

Torres? A striker that has scored 8 goals for Atletico and hasn't scored in the last 18 games...and yes there were the Chelsea years. And he wasn't **** for us when he came he was brilliant so doesn't fit with your idea on that aspect either.

Caroll a striker who has managed 18 goals in 3 years?

I gurantee you that if you show me every one of those threads I'll show you the posts from LFC fans stating "I don't rate him" or "overspent on an average player" right there in the threads. And I'm confident there were a lot more posts like that over recent transfer windows than before.

We are in the table where we bought. No two ways about it. And we've lost the real quality players we did find because of the majority of those transfers.

We pin our hopes on player development by managers as the answer to all our problems...As Klopp says..he's not a miracle worker and although Brendan thought he was well....

These "good PL players" we buy...where were the teams we got them from finishing in the league even with them being "good"?

Our best performing remaining players (Sturridge and Coutinho) weren't getting their previous first 11!

 

I stopped reading at Torres.

 

Watching MOTD and getting angry again lol

 

I missed Downing off that list. I am not saying they are all world beaters, just that since leaving you they have gone back to doing the things that made you buy them

 

Why did you stop reading at Torres? there is more to a striker than scoring goals you know

 

We are always told that often the players ar ejust as much to blame as the players, but it's obviously easier to sack a manager than it is to rebuild a whole squad.

Maybe in this instance the fact that neither Rodgers or Klopp (yet) has got them putting any real effort in is down to the fact that the players are to blame and not the manager?

 

Maybe they are just thick and don't understand what the manager is asking of them, or like at our place, don't believe it will work?

 

Not got the right mentality to step up to a bigger club with higher expectations?
Pressure of being a big money signing that they can't cope with?

Plenty have done exactly the same at United, or Arsenal or City etc...

The issues has been that for you guys, you've had a top team and have been able to add one or two signings, if they don't work you still have a top team and can then just move them on and try again.

We've had to buy these players as our star player replacing another who has just left. If they don't perform then it has a far larger effect. Add to the team constantly adding to it because we never seem to have a settled side from one year to the next.

It's catch 22 in that regard, team performs average - go out and improve it by spending. Players then don't succeed and next year do the same thing. Never getting a consistent team from one year to the other.

Then, on the odd chance you do well (08/09) (13/14) and can possibly keep the team and add one or two to improve it, we lose the star player or an important cog (Alonso / Suarez) and therefor have to start all over again.

 

That's what happens to striking expectations when you have Rooney I suppose

 

I get what you are saying, that is where we are now.
It's not down to the quality of player, it's the quantity. This is where Fergie had it right, we lost "star" players but he didn't change half the team because of it, he bought a replacement maybe two just in case, but the team carried on with the same pattern/ethos.
We have now had to rebuild the team (through necessity) and so many players can not be expected to gel in such a short time, you lot have done it every time you have lost a good player.

 

Except he's been that poor that he was pulled off and the Spanish commentators stated "he was finished" in the last match and not on at all tonight.

Aspas
Alberto
Lambert
Reina
Coates
Manquillo
Assaidi
Aquilani
Sahin

Downing played well for half a season but doesnt get on anymore.

These are the others...none set the world on fire or even mildly warm when off they went.

And my point stands...they did well at mid table teams, couldn't raise us higher than mid table and returned to mid table teams to do "ok" at best.

Because we kept paying far too much for them it raises the expectation level because you expect the experts to know more than you and me. Unfortunately a lot of us now know we simply throw money and hope.

Hopefully Klopp changes that trend.

 

Shhhhush, this is Benteke related

 

Probably true.. they are footballers.

But they are also probably set in their ways. Benteke had been at Villa for 3 years and for 3 years he played on the last man and fought for diagonal balls from the half way line etc.. can he play another way? Of course he can.. but it'll take time to learn.

Under Rodgers we had no real identity. If you look at Arsenal it's quick passing, Chelsea it's just being solid and working one or two openings, United when successful, all about good wing play, Stoke under Pullis, solid at the back and try nick one etc... all teams that were successful had a style and stuck to it.

Rodgers had one, then abandoned it after year 1, tried something difference year 2 etc.. it meant the players were constantly having to adapt. Now Klopp has come in and obviously has his own style which is different to how we have bene playing. Under Rodgers he talked about pressing etc, but we never saw it. It was more possession than anything.

How long did it take Klopp to get Dortmund to challenge for things? He was there 7 years and they were vastly successful in the last 4 years prior to him leaving (apart from the last). I don't know exactly how they got on in the first 3 years but I don't remember them being CL regulars or winning the league, so it possibly took him that long to find the players he wanted (and that's not splashing cash as a lot were cheap in Lewandowski, Suhin, Hummels etc but the right type) as well as training them to play the way he wanted.

He needs time, I think everyone knows this season is going to be a bit of a write off, which is a shame because it was a perfect chance with teams failing to get top 4, but it's going to take more than 1/4 of a season and 1 window for Klopp to get things how he wants. He's not afraid to move players on as shown by his first year at Dortmund, and I think we'll see quite a fe go in the summer, the ones who don't look like they can adapt to his ways (Lucas, Skrtel, Benteke)

 

You didn't though really. Not in 2000's. You were one of the top clubs in the World along with Madrid Barca so you never lost your star players, and especially not to rivals. Only one I can think of is Beckham, but even he was made better because of his name and looks than his footballing ability. You rarely lost star players because we were the best team in the league... no one left you that you needed unless they had a run in with the Drunk Scotsman.

You could afford to therefor just add one or two quality players and partyl because you had a squad filled with players from the youth team. They helped bulk up the squad and allowed you to add one or two players because you already had that depth. Fergie actually helped put you in this mess by going for personal glory and not long term ambition in his final years... he had his retirement date set and wanted to win something before he left and spent big money on prime players. He was very good at rebuilding a squad but he just couldn't be assed in the end it seemed (you've still not replaced Keane and Scholes for example!)

I know it gets brought up a lot but net spend has an effect. You lot like to bash us over it because we use it as an "excuse" and you're right, it shouldn't be an excuse because we spent a lot of money, but it's money spent always replacing someone. We've rarely been in a situation where we can add one or two players to the previous years team and develop it. The only couple of occasions we have been in that position we've ****ed up and that's a **** up at the top. 09 we should never have tried to get rid of Alonso, instead keeping him and adding one more quality wide player. That would have just added that bit more quality and depth to go on and really challenge, instead we had to try sign 3 or 4 for a combine £30m to fill out the squad depth because it just wasn't there.

 

[

Klopp is an excellent manager, I would pick him ahead of Pep if given the choice based on the fact he has actually built a team and obviously has an eye for players.
I think you may be surprised when he is culling your squad, Lucas..yes (injury ravaged), Skirtle..yes (not good enough), Benteke..no, the man wanted him for nearly two years but never had the funds to buy him. I also think Milner will stay (at least to the end of his contract) to help with experience