This argument that Arsenal concede a bucket full after going one down doesn't hold. Arsenal also have one of the better records for recovering points from losing positions over the years. I guess you can pick out the positives or the negatives depending on what agenda you're trying to pursue.
Are you just claiming this for the sake of it or do you actually have evidence for this? In any case, I've clearly given examples off the top of my head where we've been battered and conceded far more goals than we should be in some matches over the last 4 years. Losing is part and parcel of football. But the nature of how we lose is another thing altogether.
please log in to view this image PR= points recovered (from losing positions) PS= points surrendered (from winning positions)
Thanks for that makes for interesting reading and some of it has surprised me admittedly. Although the %'s aren't that impressive looking at the overall table. You need to look at the data relatively to each season. I find it interesting that in 2007-08 and 2008-09, we had the worst points surrendered % out of the top 4 (Spurs weren't as good and City weren't a financial powerhouse just then). Then in 2009/10 and 2010/11, we had the worst points surrendered out of those that finished in the top 4 as well. Also, our points recovered in 2009-10 and 2010-11 isn't really that impressive either. And perhaps quite crucially, the data is only limited to those 6 teams, why not show the PR and PS for all the teams in the league? Finally, the data only covers 5 seasons, with the most recent being the 2011-12 season. That was nearly 4 seasons ago now. We need more up to date figures. Certainly in recent times, I'm doubtful that the points recovered will be as high as it was in the 2007-08/2011/12 season.
In my many years of supporting Arsenal I've known us to get some right hammering,it's not something that just started happening in the last few years
As I said, you can pick out the positives or negatives to support whichever argument you want really. We've given plenty of teams a hammering too. Arsenal 7-0 Everton Arsenal 7-0 Middlesbrough QPR 0-6 Arsenal Inter Milan 1-5 Arsenal Arsenal 6-0 Sheff Utd Everton 1-6 Arsenal Arsenal 7-0 Slavia Prague
But you've gone back over a decade to get some of these results. I'm talking about why we concede so many since the 8-2 essentially (2011), because we seem to get beaten comfortably more often than we give them out. The point is we shouldn't be getting beaten by such a large margin in the first place because we're meant to be significantly stronger than the other teams in the league.
It's probably worth noting Southampton was our first league game conceding more than 2 goals since our 3-2 loss to stoke last season, about 13 months ago. That was the only time we conceded more than 2 goals in the league last season. So this season and last combined we have only two games conceding over 2 goals, which would suggest in recent times we aren't having regular games were we get completely turned over and look like repeatedly conceding. And given that at least two of the Southampton goals shouldn't have stood I wouldn't say this game falls into the same category as the big losses a few seasons ago.
Interestingly if you look at the last few seasons: 12/13 - no losses by more than a 2 goal margin, no losses with more than 2 goals conceded 13/14 - 4 losses by more than a 2 goal margin, 6-3 against City, 5-1 Liverpool, 3-0 Everton, 6-1 Chelsea 14/15 - no losses by more than a 2 goal margin, 1 loss with more than 2 goals conceded (3-2 loss to stoke) 15/16 - 1 loss by more than a 2 goal margin, 4-0 loss to Southampton, also the only game conceding more than 2 goals, 2 of the goals I doubt many would disagree, shouldn't have stood. So looking back at the last few years there is only one season which stands out as having games were we got dominated and turned over by the other team. It's also the season we lead the table for the longest, a mix of pressure, a lack of steel in the middle and some unlucky timings of injuries meant we fell apart towards the end of the season which is when all of those results occurred (between Feb-March) other than the city result which was earlier in the season but actually we looked good going forward in that game rather than **** like in the others. So other than a few games within a short period of time a couple of seasons ago when we fell apart, it doesn't seem to be true that we regularly have these horrible results and performances, at least not in recent history.
11/12 - 7 wins by at least a 3 goal margin, 1 loss by more than a 3 goal margin 12/13 - 7 wins by at least a 3 goal margin, no losses by at least a 3 goal margin 13/14 - 5 wins by at least a 3 goal margin, 4 losses by at least a 3 goal margin 14/15 - 8 wins by at least a 3 goal margin, no losses by at least a 3 goal margin 15/16 - 4 wins by at least a 3 goal margin, 1 loss by more than a 3 goal margin That is just for the league so doesn't include things like our 5-1 loss to Bayern or our 7-2 win against reading in the league cup, so there are a handful of other cup results which meet the criteria but they weren't easily available in the set of stats I was using! So it would seem we have handed out far more hammerings than we have received in the last five years.
So for 4+ goal difference takings in all comps: This season... Received 2, given 0 2014/15...received 0, given 2 2013/14...received 2, given 1 Not so rosy
Precisely. This is exactly the point. We are better than a lot of these teams, so we should be expected to give out more hammerings than we receive.
But these games were in recent history and I've given examples in the OP as well. Regardless of whichever way you want to spin it, unless we're playing against a team that is objectively stronger than us in all areas of the pitch, we should not be getting comfortably beaten by 3+ goals. And we have been in some of the recent seasons gone by. If you want to look at the amount of 3+ goal victories we give out compared to the 3+ goal defeats we've had overall, then yes, I wouldn't be surprised if we've given out more due to our superiority to most of the teams. But that's not what the argument is about. It's a straw man.
Not exactly something you want for a team aspiring for the title. I'm partly wondering if these hammerings were down to loss of concentration, and if so, it's not something you'd expect from title winning, championship mentality.
It's not ideal. But this season bar the Munich result, it's been a one off in the league. Every team has a bad day now and again.
