Off Topic Political Debate

I also think that people forget that the government is giving away borrowed money that needs to be paid back sometime. Certainly not adding to the debt mountain should be celebrated, around 2019, but paying it back will be a long hard slog.

 

The welfare state should provide essentials only, not a lifestyle choice. Your giveaway attitude is why the UK owes so much.

 

My giveaway attitude? You are proposing to take away benefits that you received yourself. I am all right Jack...
I agree reform is needed but hard working people -like you once were - should not have to pay for what you may perceive to be sins of previous administrations.

 

I have not received any benefits apart from child allowance. My family company pays hundreds of thousands of pounds each year in corporation tax so like everybody else I'm entitled to have an opinion how this money is spent.

 

So you were not on a housing list then? Funny because the other night you said you were.

 

I was married with two children on apprentice wages living in a council house in the early 70's. My wife and myself were not satisfied being poor so we vowed to change our circumstances. You can accuse me of many things but I do not tell lies.

 

I didn't say you tell lies - I just find it interesting you would seek to deny people the opportunities you had.

 

In this season of goodness and joy

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Question: So Is God a capitalist....??

Serious question: Is capitalism compatible with a monotheistic alimighty God?

 

Nope ..have you not heard what Jesus said about camels and eyes of needles . Matty .19:24

 

Always the easy questions Yorkie It won't surprise you to know I am middling in this. If you are a capitalist and share your wealth without condition then yes it is compatible - if you don't then it is not. In my opinion of course.

 

Dan your opinion counts for nowt when up against Jesus ... ( please remind me , when exactly was his birthday ? )
…23And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 25When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?"…
...The message here ... In the long run it is better to live on benefits ... Sorry Superhorns , it looks like you are doooomed .

 

You somehow worked out my being on a council list was incompatible with being part of a fairly substantial family business. It is strange that you could not envisage that it was possible to change one's circumstances. To help you I will explain.
My wife and I successfully started several small businesses from scratch which allowed me to develop properties which coincided with the property boom.

I retired to France in the late 90's having franchised a business plus had several commercial rental properties. Whilst in France I encouraged my eldest daughter to start her own business. Unfortunately most of our money was lost due to her naivety and lack of experience.
I retuned from France and tweaked the business which supplied medical devices. I remortgaged everything I had left to finance the business. We had several difficult years but due to our policy of drastically reducing the cost to the NHS we became the one of the UK's largest suppliers, breaking a high price cartel operated by several multinational companies. It saved the NHS millions. My daughter now runs the business, we will sell our shares to her soon.

Far from denying opportunities to others the business, through my daughter, has actively funded many schemes to promote enterprise for young people.

You really should not stereotype, it is just being lazy.

 

Could be very painful!

 

I do not see a monotheistic almighty god compatible with anything other than fantasy and fairy tales.
I see a well run capitalist system as being of benefit to humanity as a whole.

 

Maybe you need to define what you mean by 'well run' Leo. I see there as being both pure and impure versions of both Socialism and Capitalism. Socialism in its pure form comes from below - industries really are under the control of workers and democracy is not confined only to the political sphere. In its impure form we have a state run bureaucracy with all the hierarchies which that entails. Capitalism in its pure form ensures maximum competition and, in its best form, a level playing field. In its impure form it leads to monopolies and all the consequent lack of choice (and democratic control) which that implies. Both systems tend towards the impure forms if left to themselves. Interesting to see the question of 'God and Capitalism' brought into the equation - 'How darest thou call thine Ox thine own - it is the Lords', and if the Lord hath need for it he will claim it' - quote from Abiezer Coppe. Up to the 19th Century nearly all Communist thought came from religious sources - be it from Fra Dolcino, Thomas Munzer, John of Leydon, the Anabaptists through to the Levellers/Diggers and the Jesuit republic of Paraguay (the first country to ever abolish private property) even English socialism owed more to Methodism than to Marx.

 

If you take God out of the equation (I think it's best!) you can still consider some of the philanthropists who created small villages for their workers and gave them improved lives and conditions in return for their work. Sure some of the would have been religious but that would not have been the only reason for their actions - a happy healthy workforce was presumably going to be much more productive. I forget the names now but I think two were Lever and Salt - and Port Sunlight's ringing some bells.

 

i was differentiating between the monotheistic religions ( Judaism, Christianity and Islam) and the other main religions.....

For me the sort of market driven capitalism with minimalist social support which seems to be view perpetrated on this thread by those who are against a socialist paradigm is barely compatible with my beliefs that we are all part of a greater whole. No one is ultimately better than anyone else or worthy of derision either. I have little faith in the wealthy capitalist who has made his(normally his) wealth at the expense of others normally by insourcing from the third world in this era... really being able to make the best decisions for the poor, needy and oppressed. The benevolence of the wealthy is really questionable in my view. I know there are many examples of the opposite too...... so my apols in advance for causing offence

 

John Dickenson?

 

Hopefully you don't mean the one based in Apsley?

 

Yes we have the mill village of Saltaire close to us which is a good example