TinTin, I wont say this anymore, but you often post saying things like, "and don't try arguing with me".. "I'm right, it's a fact".. "That's nonsense" or words to this affect in so many posts. That is aggressive, tiresome and not inducing for discussion which is what a forum is for. I found it an aggressive, dismissive post. Stats don't tell you everything. You don't know what Ramirez is like on the training field. They don't tell you if he does in a game what a manager wants. Koeman may not be using him because he hasn't seen enough in training, attitude, other contributions from the seasons Gaston has been here. It is not all about stats. Is there a stat for not picking up a runner? Is there a stat for being in the wrong position at a set piece? Before you question these, I am using hypothetical examples. I will also repeat what I said in the other post. I am a huge Gaston fan. Massive. Ask people on here. I was almost a lone voice two seasons ago defending him as I believe he is a huge talent and still young enough to go on and do something somewhere. My point is that I understand why he hasn't had much impact in four seasons.
And here's another. Three successive managers haven't chosen to play him very much at all. Perhaps (just perhaps) they know something not reflected in statistics. Vin
Yep, me too. I have wondered whether I might have more chance of getting on the bench than Gaston, so have started taking my boots to games (free advice for you there, FLT). Ultimately, we either trust that this manager knows what he is doing or he doesn't. Gaston has given me some great memories - that 4-1 win against Villa is the highlight, but coming on as a sub against Everton and scoring is my favourite cameo - but I have to accept that there is something about the boy that keeps us from playing him. Reed is puzzling. He seemed a ready made step up into Morgan's huge shoes. Again, I can only trust in Ron.
Not commenting on the first part of this post as it's none of my business. Agree wist the second part 100%
I can understand not wanting him to start games. But to deny that he hasn't deserved more chances to make an impact from the bench considering his end product is laughable to me. Two sub appearances in the league in Koeman's whole spell as manager since he took over in June 2014 is ridiculous. Ramirez played a reasonable amount under Adkins and Pochettino actually. The only manager that hasn't chosen to play him is Koeman. Pochettino mainly used him as back up and as an impact from the bench. Which is how Koeman should be using him. Adkins started him a lot. We shouldn't forget either that Ramirez would have played more under Pochettino and Adkins if he hadn't been picking up injuries. No one is saying he's a world beater, just that he should have had more chances under Koeman..
Most people seem to agree TinTin. I think only one person said forget him. I don't see many people denying this.
Fatletiss, you have said what I wanted to say about Ramirez. He's had his chances, clearly Ron hasn't seen enough in him for him to play a meaningful part. Are we forgetting that Poch. didn't play him often either? There were rumours that Ramirez wanted out at that point, because of lack of gametime and communication.
I've used this comparison before, and I still believe it to be true so will use it again. Ramirez is our Bryan Ruiz. A very gifted player who just can't adjust to the English game. He will go to Spain/Italy I would guess when his contract is up, probably a middling to lower top flight team and end up at a good one in a couple of years time.
Surely we HAVE to give academy players a chance ? That is what this club is about to a great extent . We ARE a selling club like it or not . If Managers don't play our youth , what is the point ? The above is simplistic I know , but don't have the time at the moment .
I don't mind people talking up Ramirez and asking why he wasn't given more game time. What I do not like is that people start saying stats this and stats that. He had more end product than Lallana, Lallana was not as good. If this is true then we need to kick out the black box, kick out the board, kick out Les Reed and get someone in who can appoint a manager that knows what he is doing because the past 3 fools have been picking the wrong guys. Defend Ramirez,that's fine but don't start calling everyone inside the club fools (or implying they are.) That is what you might say is nonsense. In their eyes Lallana was better for the team than Ramirez and thats all that matters. In their eyes Lallana had more end product and they have infinitely more stats on each player than Opta give us. They may see (as stated above) that Lallana's end product was much higher as you don't know what they are assessing as end product. This isn't just about goals assists, tackles and heat maps. It is about what someone brings to the team overall. Now I am not saying this about Lallana but there are some players that are in teams because when they are there they bring something out of the other players. Talismans that are past their best or just characters that bring a feel good factor. What they lack in talent or ability they make up for in spades in other areas. Adkins and Pochetino were no fools, neither is Koeman. Be disappointed but we have to let this one go or start a petition to get all these people out of the club who do not know what they are doing.
Meh.. I don't know. I think most of this Reed talk is frustration with our current play mixed with shiny new toy syndrome. Keep in mind, I'm a huge fan of Reed, and I was saying last season we needed to find more playing time for him. And that Koeman doesn't do as good a job as MP and NA at trying to scrounge up minutes for young players. But still. If we had sold Schneiderlin and not bought in a replacement in the summer, this place would have gone crazy. Moreover, the reaction when we bought Clasie was overwhelmingly positive. So to go back now and say that we didn't need to buy Clasie is crazy. And I should add that Clasie has played in what? 5 or 6 games? And looked really, really good in at least two of them. Now let's go back to the beginning of the season. We WERE playing a highly hyped young Saints Academy product in the lineup. It was Matt Targett. He didn't play so well. And he took a lot of abuse for it. I don't recall the board's attitude being "No, we need to stick with this guy. He's a young Academy player. Bertand is already 26, we're not going to make it." We couldn't wait for Bertrand to get back. Now let's go back a mere month ago. Against Leicester when Koeman inserted Clasie-- the guy who hadn't played at all-- into the lineup. No calls for "Wow, breath of fresh air. We're giving new guys a chance." Nope, it was "WHY THE F@CK DIDN'T HE USE ROMEU!?!" And now yesterday. Romeu comes in. And plays pretty well. And scores a goal, to boot. Fantastic, right? The guy people kept moaning about not getting used more comes in and gets us a point. But no, it's "Why aren't we using Harry Reed?!?" If we put in Reed today, by the time he plays 5 or 6 games he will have made a mistake or maybe not even make a mistake but had the misfortune to play in a losing game. Because that's what happens in football. And some section of supporters will be moaning that Reed is crap and we need to go out and get yet another shiny new toy. I think we should loan Reed out for the second half of next year and see how he plays. A lower league would actually be good for him because he will get a lot of time with the ball. I expect he would win like 10,000 tackles and then get a chance to dribble/pass/create against lousier sides. In the meantime, we can play Romeu. That we can assess both of them. And if that goes well, then in the summer we can sell Wanyama and spend the funds elsewhere because between Reed and/or Romeu we have an inhouse replacement.
No one said Lallana isn't good. But the reality is Ramirez has had better end product, that much is factual. Therefore to call Ramirez **** is utterly nonsense. It wasn't meant in any way as a debate about who was the better player. It was just proof that Ramirez isn't ****. End product in football for an attacker is classed as directly, or indirectly, setting up a goal or scoring one. What you're talking about in the last paragraph is overall performance, other qualities and what the player brings to the table overall on and off the ball, you aren't talking about what people (players, managers etc) call end product. End product is seen as an extremely important thing for an attacker, hence why I brought it up.
I don't really think you can compare Targett and Reed. Reed has put in high quality performances when he's played, Targett hasn't. Full back is also a harder position to play. A full back has to offer a threat going forward. A DM just needs to be solid. People will complain about a right back and left back even if they are solid defensively, if they haven't been good going forward. Targett is very poor going forward imo, despite being relatively decent defensively. I wanted Romeu to start the last game. I'm happy he's scored and he deserves to start the next one as a result. For me it was more the fact that Reed hasn't had any chances this season that was frustrating and that Clasie has been extremely poor imo (and I never rated him ever personally, I kept away from all the Clasie threads and conversations that were bigging him up. Yet Reed has already proven he can play great whenever he's had chances) . In reality for Koeman there's no going back now after signing Clasie and Romeu. He probably feels they're his players and he must play them. So I expect that Reed won't get chances unless 2 or 3 players get injured that can play in that area.
At the very least, we ought to be finding spots in the matchday squad for the young 'uns. When Yoshida is fit and on the bench, there are very few situations in which Caulker or Martina will (or should) see the pitch; would much rather a Reed or one of the young attacking players be available, should the opportunity present.
Clasie was hailed as the missing link, sadly he is just missing. It takes time, 24 international caps at his age suggests quality judges know quality players... I await the proof. Reed has excelled every time he has played.
With regards to not using Gaston, for me he simply doesn't fit Ron's way of playing, because he isn't a winger. As has already been said, in this thread, all our attacks go down the flanks,and we create very little/nothing through the middle. Ron appears to have a set way of playing, plan A - down the flanks and sling in crosses. Or plan B, switch Mane and Tadic to opposite sides, attack down the flanks and sling crosses in, which doesn't work as they both cut in onto their stronger foot and play gets compacted outside the 18 yard box. This is exactly when a player with Gaston's skills should prosper, because he has the ability to clip the ball through/over tightly formed defences, for players to run onto, something we have tried and failed to do all season, to date. I can visualise Tadic and Mane playing one-twos with Gaston, and receiving the ball back, in space, behind the back four. I have lost count of the times we have tried to dink balls through crowded defences, and we really aren't very good at it. If there is a stat for 1 on 1's with the keeper, I would imagine our count would be quite low, in comparison to other teams.
I thought Clasie was very good against Liverpool in PL. He had a good case for MOTM, IMO. And he was pretty solid against I think Sunderland. I have no opinion on him in the Leicester game, he was a second half sub and we were getting tonked so he had little chance to stand out one way or the other. And that was his first game after injury and first PL appearance. Everyone was off their game against Stoke, including Clasie. I fortunately did not watch the League Cup match but can only assume that was a ****show of horrible play from the vast majority of the team. Which leaves maybe 1-2 other games where I guess I thought he was about average as I can't remember him standing out one way or the other. Reed last year I remember had one FANTASTIC game. And one game where I thought he wasn't so good. The others, I remember thinking he played pretty well and I had a positive impression of him. But at no point did I feel like yeah, we've got our midfielder for the next ten years right here. Romeu has been sort of decent, never great for me in his appearances. I am impressed with his ball distribution. Not impressed with his defensive positioning and tendency to give away cheap fouls (which also limits his playing time). For a guy of his size, I feel like he should be really be better defensively and I think he can be. The upshot is, I think they ALL should be getting more time as they all have potential if they can address their flaws/inconsistency. And I think for that to happen, one of them probably has to go out on loan. And Reed makes the most sense.
Clasie wouldn't get MOTM at the moment if he was the only player on the pitch. Very good is pushing it to say the least.
