Off Topic Political Debate

The odd thing is Toby that I would have said you and I - from a long time past - have some history. I am sure our views are very very different - however if conducted politely I do not see why we cannot at least converse. I know how patronising this will sound but I do believe that Age mellows most people. You seem so much more angry about everything that many on here. I guess passionate can be good.
On the EU I share your quandry. For 50 years I would have described myself as pro European - even to the extent of political cooperation / federal structures. But now I am beginning to feel that the UK is so different to the rest of Europe that maybe we would be better just leaving and making our own trade / political and economic policies. I am genuinely unsure how I will vote.

 

Leo, can you list my 'failed' predictions?

My views, unlike yours, are not all over the place, I simply have arrived at a perspective that the UK is better with a capitalist government that encourages free enterprise, small state, low tax and make people more responsible for their actions. I do not like the fact that the UK is not able to control its borders or that Brussels make many of our laws. I do not expect most on here to share my views but to simply call another poster a WUM because he disagrees with other posts demeans the thread.

 

Now you have spoiled it - in my head you were the strict headmistress - now I've said too much and probably got Canary Dave too excited too.

 

Lol i can be anything you want me to be!

 

I don't know, the pro/con EU debate will always end up like the Life of Brian argument...

Free movement of people, more homogeneity for laws/trade/initiatives across countries and a stronger negotiating position when it comes to international matters. The USA wouldn't have much say over world affairs if they were individual states....

I agree on the Turkey front (for the time being anyway), but it's been put off for ages for the same reasons you're uncomfortable with the idea.

I'm a fervent anti-nationalist, we should move beyond that as a species...

 

Angry? I wish!

I don't hold grudges and I'm always happy to discuss things if people are being civil. 98% (wild estimate but probably accurate) of SH's posts have been clichéd propaganda and insults, he has very little to contribute otherwise.

Without sounding patronising either I've a lot more experience in using the internet than most posters on here, and people don't realise what a haven of peace this little forum is compared to most sites out there...Unfortunately there will always be an SH to ruin things...

Having moved from the UK now I should let things go, not care about the Tories ruining the country of my birth and just enjoy the French lifestyle without stressing

 

I reckon you are capable of re-reading your own posts to see which have failed. I have no intention of re-reading any of your posts.
My views are far from being all over the place. They simply do not correspond with the artificiality of party politics. As Yorkie says this whole business of trying to define what is right or left wing has serious flaws.
My views are that I also have arrived at a perspective that the UK is better with a capitalist government that encourages free enterprise, small state, low tax and make people more responsible for their actions. I do not like the fact that the UK is not able to control its borders or that Brussels make many of our laws. In addition I consider that spending billions on Trident instead of hospitals and schools is stupid. We are not allowed even to push the nuclear button without the permission of the USA so independent it is not. Bombing people - killing people is wrong - I cannot understand how any Christian who hears the words "thou shalt not kill" and has trust in their God supports war and armies. (even I concede that in extremes self defence may overcome reason) I believe that some people need help from others and that a decent society is built to help those people - sometimes in the short term but often permanently. I could elaborate much further but won't. Suffice it to say there is not a political party that I wish to associate myself with so I vote on an election to election basis for which party I consider the least of all evils
You are not called a WUM for the reasons you state. Try looking at the spectrum of opinion that covers myself, Yorkie, Canary Dave, Dan, Toby, Aberdeen, WearYellow and others - how many different opinions do you see and want? It is your method of posting that defines you as a WUM. Others give their opinions and usually back them up with reasoning. You rarely do that. Why do you think nobody else on this board calls anyone else a WUM other than you? Are we all wrong from all of our left, right and other perspectives? You are the only person I know who can actually wind up a person as nice as Yorkie is - and I disagree with his views as much as any. Look at how you post and be honest and admit that you enjoy winding people up. Fair enough - some of us can see it , take it and not be bothered but do not be surprised if others get slightly cross.

 

Leo, you know me so well!

 

Life of Brian ..a brilliant film .
Toby ... a NLP life Coach ?
As a "traditional" lefty I'm fond of the likes of Corbyn and Livingstone ....they are honourable men . However , I'm a little concerned that Ken may be past his best .
Was pleased with yesterday's result , but fear there may be some truth in Farage's comments . I would be upset to see the Labour party used in the coming years by a certain community within our society ....the postal vote did look dodgy and if there is some truth in the allegations , then it is undemocratic .

 

I think most of us do realise - and appreciate - that this is a particularly "civil" board. Sometimes you need an SH to appreciate everything else I can honestly say that it is illness that makes you appreciate health. Bet you were born in a Tory era - are you a closet Maggie denier (joke as well as a WU). Politics goes in cycles - what goes around comes around. The alternative is dictatorship which is only alright if you side with the rulers. This way we all get some good and some bad years.
On anti- nationalism I guess I like international cooperation but when the EU acts like a small nationalist entity then it bothers me. A federal structure with as much devolution of powers to a) states b) regions within states and c) local areas as possible is my preference. Agree on Turkey - nasty government.

 

Some on here, including you are simply massaging egos not sensibly discussing politics.

 

Thanks for the banter guys. Not much point in any further discussions.

Hope the political party membership subject doesn't arise too often.!!!

COYH's

 

You see that is just a WUM comment. Not even a good one - actually none of them are. What does massaging egos even mean? Most of us just enjoy a bit of political debate - giving our views - reasoned views - and being interested in learning about others. Your quote above is typical of your WUMs. You just make an unsubstantiated bald statement that is meant to be rude to others. Are you able to actually make a point and back it up with a reasoned argument. If the answer is yes then start by explaining exactly wha tyou mean about massaging egos, give a few concrete examples and then tell us how you define sensibly discussing politics. I would be impressed if you could do that. Not so easy is it being on a forum where you are not the boss and everybody does not pretend to your face that you are intelligent? My apologies - that gets close to personal abuse.

 

Please tell us that means you are not posting in this thread again

 

I'm just thankful that UKIP did not make any real inroads in the by-election. With the Conservatives basically pulling the carpet form out of them by promising a referendum is it fair to say that they are pretty much dead as a political force for now?

 

I have been out for the day so have only just read through the days offerings. Welcome back to France Toby, I knew you would return sooner or later.
Given the choice between Corbyn and Farage I would find myself in the same situation as here, Hollande v Le Penn. Think I would take my vote elsewhere.

 

Great Vid

IMO it is not in or out ... but how we relate... . for trade purposes i think we are much better in

I am also anti-nationalist..... one of the biggest threats to peace in virtually every continent is nationalism... and often false borders set out by the Colonialists I had a great conversation with an Eritrean refugee the other day.... and Eritrea were lumped in with Ethiopia and it all ended up in an awful war.

You back en France? Same place? You are not too far from Frenchie I think.

 

and of course religion......

 

Was just reading Frankie Boyle's piece on the Guardian about the ISIS bombings, not a big fan of his but the end of his article was pretty spot on...

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...al-race-war-and-weve-decided-to-give-them-one

 

Bonjour OFH! Back home now, currently trying to get my driving licence (avoided it for over a decade but not got much choice here, nearest 'town' is over 10km away...) and going to see what happens. It's nice to be back!!

Hi Yorkie, yep staying with the parents at the mo until I get all the froggy paperwork sorted (WHY DO THEY NEED SO MANY FORMS?!?!?!?!), when I'm allowed to drive we should have a Watford get-together in the French countryside! I think I'm about 60km from OFH, you're a bit further north, no?

I stopped chess for a bit, will get on it again soon, only just managed to get internet in my room! 2m stone walls aren't very friendly for WIFI....