Off Topic Political Debate

Let's wait for the vote.

 

Very poor judgement on his part. Looks like his script writer is the same one as Tony Haywood had for the gulf spill......

 

The Front National is tipped to take control of at least two of France's 13 mainland regions for the first time. Both areas were former bastions of the left. The EU is constructing a deal with Turkey to manage the migrants within the borders of that country. Apart from paying 3bn Euros the cost includes visa free travel for Turks within the Schengen agreement area.
The French in general bitterly oppose Turkey joining the EU, if unopposed this would certainly help the FN in next year's elections.

I believe whatever happens in the UK's referendum Europe is in line for dramatic changes.

 

I have just listened to one of the great pieces of oration heard in the Commons. I cannot remember MP's on all sides of the house applauding a speech. I wonder how many Labour party members wished they could have voted for Hilary Benn to be the leader rather than Corbyn?

 

Yes... I heard the TV news........ clearly touched the hearts of many...

 

Another man of conviction, his father was one of the best true socialist politicians ever. A selfless family with real pedigree.

 

Several Labour MP's, who supported the bombing in Syria, have today complained about bullying by Corbyn's left wing activists especially Momentum, the grassroots organisation. It has been compared to The Militant Tendency group that caused chaos in the 1980's. One MP said 'It looks like Militant, it acts like Militant, it sounds like Militant.

 

Maybe a few people should read what Ken Livingston had to say about his treatment in the PLP under Blairite Labour and how Blair himself tried to scupper his candidacy for the mayorship in London before they start pointing fingers now. The problem is that anyone, anywhere, knows that if they raise a voice of any shade against Corbyn that they will get a good hearing from the media. Accusations should be more precise - has anyone been beaten up in the toilets at Westminster ? No, has anyone suffered anything which could be used for either a criminal indictment, or a breech of party rules - if so they should either make a concrete case or shut up.

 

These bullies will only increase the UKIP vote in Oldham today!!

 

Livingstone said if his MP had voted for airstrikes he would back a de-selection challenge. I thought all Labour MP's were given a free vote according to their conscience.

Is this the new 'kinder type of politics'?

 

Got to say Corbyn looking very stressed when Benn was at the despatch box. The way he looked I can't see him surviving to the next election, the stress will get him and at his age what's best for him personally might be to withdraw from politics all together. Why did he miss the start? Rest room call? The furtive glances across to Cameron were telling too, he is not comfortable in his role.

 

I cannot help thinking that however good or bad the motives the decision to bomb Daesh in Syria is wrong. Not on principle - although as a pacifist I would be opposed on principle anyway. It is just totally irrelevant and ineffective. I cannot help thinking that Cameron has forged ahead with it for two main reasons (in addition to his belief that it is a good idea of course). 1) He is still smarting from the embarrassing defeat he suffered on Syrian bombing 2 years ago. 2) He wants to be able to hold his head up when he is with Obama and Hollande. His w*lly is as big as theirs.

6 or 8 extra planes - what is that all about? The Russians were enthusiastic in their support of it saying something like "every little helps" (They have about 167 planes). Without all the macho posturing and ridiculous debate Cameron could have offered his 6 planes to bomb in Iraq and let the US or French move 6 to Syria. But that would not have made him a "main man" would it?

If I were made Lord Protector tomorrow I would take the unpopular decision to find common cause with Assad - however reprehensible he is. (is he worse than the Saudis?) I would do a deal whereby he uses HIS ground forces (the only ones capable of taking on Daesh in Syria meaningfully to exterminate Daesh in Syria. US and Russian bombing would support his ground attacks. He would thereby wipe out the most effective opposition he has with international support. In return he would agree to cease all strikes against the rest of his countrymen and to end the civil war by giving a real and meaningful degree of tolerance, freedom and regional authority to his opponents. They would have to agree to cease their bombing too of course. In addition he would agree to step down in favour of an acceptable successor within say 3 to 5 years.

All that would defeat Daesh in Syria, it would end the conflict and reason for refugees fleeing. It would leave the state apparatus in place unlike the mess left behind in Libya and Iraq. To get the Russians on board we would need to let them continue to have Syria as one of their spheres of influence in the region with their mediterranean sea base. It would also mean we did not have to negotiate with or perhaps arm the 81 or however many local warlords that comprise Cameron's 70,000.

 

If an MP is consistently voting against the wishes of the people who backed his candidature in the first place then I do not see any problem with moves towards de-selection. This is exactly the same thing as having the ability to recall councillors for the same reason. As a general question (and I ask because I really don't know the answer for the UK.) If a councillor in the UK. changes party in midstream are they expected to hand their seat back ?

 

They are not. Nor is an MP (defections to UKIP). You cannot of course force an MP to be replaced - only not to select them for the next election.

 

I have no problem with de-selection for the next election. At each election the parties need to choose the candidates who they propose - there should be no automatic right to stand for a party. It is up to the party to decide who they believe is the candidate most likely to deliver what they require.

 

I would go along with your ideas here Leo. Any military operations in Syria taken by a foreign power should be with the allowance and cooperation of Assad. However, a joint ground operation by Assad and air attacks by the US. and Russia could get very nasty - the Americans managed to successfully bomb Turkey and Iran whilst attacking Iraq - and bombs were also dropped on Bulgarian territory whilst attacking Serbia - so would they actually bomb the right people ?

 

As an observer from across the seas, I feel that Corbyn is totally out of his depth. His speech yesterday was poor, and that is being kind, mainly I suspect because he is used to discussing matters in small groups such as a local CND committee or a stop the war group. This was his big chance to show that he was a politician of some stature, instead he came across as the leader of a pressure group sniping from the sidelines. He now has a real challenge to hold his party together. The next shadow cabinet meeting will be interesting to see if as a body they can continue.

 

The Labour leadership deemed this to be a free vote, why should Livingstone suggest MP's should be de-selected after one vote just because he didn't like their decisions.?

How is that democratic?

Is this another gaffe he has to apologise for?

 

62 % - increased share from general election !

 

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