Off Topic Political Debate

Yes..... how can they pull through eh....

 

Are you surprised Yorkie? I am not in the least. Cologne I think you give some of the grassroots too much credit for being ideological. I feel that if you suggested some of your theories to some they wouldn't have the foggiest. I watched a TV interview with a Labour supporter about who she would vote for in the coming election. She said she didn't like Corbyn one little bit, but she always voted Labour, so would again. I still feel he is there by default.

 

No... not surprised..... well surprised it has seemingly unravelled so quickly... I thought they would have hung together for longer....

 

I'm not surprised at all that PLP and the traditional Labour voter has and will continue to reject this current leader, his bedfellows and his left wing politics. He has heard from his shadow cabinet today and will hear from the electorate on Thursday.

His free vote decision today has only delayed the inevitable.

 

By the end of this week it will be safe to say the new 'Old Labour' movement will be effectively dead. The future of the next few decades is UK politics firmly entrenched in the middle ground with relatively little difference in policy between the only two parties, Conservative and Labour, with any chance of power. PR will not be adopted whatsoever.

 

The role of the PLP is not to be the driver of Labour Party policy - that can only come from the Party itself. If the PRP is pulling in a different direction (a direction for which is was not placed in that position) then Corbyn is right to act......however, the decision for a free vote is the right one. According to recent surveys 75% of Party members are against air strikes in Syria.

 

This is all very exciting - a bit like the English Civil War - we have Charles I (Corbyn) propped up by a cadre of L(R)oyalists set against the Roundheads (MPs) who are fighting for the common man (the 9+ million who voted Labour in May)

Ho ho - an actual prediction - let's test that one shall we?

I always thought the PLP had a major say in the direction of Labour - otherwise Blair and his supporters would not have shifted Labour to the right a generation ago. I hope by The Party you are not thinking of a bunch of activists who were nowhere in May but now are seen as the ideological core of the party (how many are Tory spies who signed up to ruin Labour) I tend to regard the MPs as representative of the party members who selected them and the 9+ million who voted for them - not the jonny-come-latelies who jumped on the Corbyn bandwagon. They speak for those nine million. When they were elected it was not to see the party shunted left by a weird putsch whereby the new leader only got onto the ballot paper due to the kindness of MPs who did not actually support him

 

Leo, all sections of the party voted for Corbyn.....even if you restrict the vote to those who were members at the time of Gordon Brown then Corbyn still has a majority. We can therefore presume that the party membership has been to the left of the PLP for quite some considerable time and this has only now really come to light. I do not deny that many have come to Labour (although a large number may well be returning members) but also many have joined later ie. after Corbyn won the leadership - so, we can presume, that with them as well, a new vote would be even more balanced in Corbyn's favour. Is it democratic that the PLP has such a large role in determining party policy ? This is what Corbyn wants to change ie. to democratize the party. Of course supporters are also important - but they do not make party policy (If they want to do that then they can become members). Regarding reselection of MPs, I am also in favour - if MPs consistently vote against the wishes of the constituency parties which put them there, then something has to happen.

 

You can presume that. I might opine that the other contenders were a total bunch of rubbish and mistakenly people thought Corbyn would represent a refreshing change - but am sure they did not take into account his lack of leadership experience - he rode a popular wave.
It seems to me that the party membership were the ones who selected the MPs - so I presume the MPs reflect the Party membership during the selection period leading up to May 2015. In a representative democracy, as ours is, those MPs then are expected to represent their constituents - not just Labour supporters, and certainly not just party members. This is another example where you seem to believe in the importance of party members more than anyone else who posts on this board - and as far as I can tell more than most people in the UK. We do not care about party membership - they do not reflect the party votership

 

Ho ho - an actual prediction - let's test that one shall we?

Are you practicing for a job as father xmas in one of the stores?

The Labour left are dead already.

 

Can tell you know nothing about Xmas - SC goes ho-ho -ho not ho ho. You righties know nothing.

 

It would actually be a desirable situation Leo if the constituency party members chose every candidate but that is often not the case. Very often those who are destined for cabinet positions are allotted seats which are either safe or at least winnable - would you like to be the Labour candidate for Taunton Deane ? I doubt it. So we have people parachuted into constituencies which are not their own in order to get them into parliament - this is how so many Blairites got there in the first place - and this is normally done over and above the wishes of the local party.

 

That's why you needed more practice, you will get there in the end, hopefully before xmas!!

 

By saying the left movement will be dead by the end of the week, I was being generous they are dead already. The Labour Party has been reduced to an unelectable rabble, with a giant wedge between the PLP and its sponsors, the union barons. I'm sure there are untraceable messages reaching each and every sponsored MP today reminding them who actually funds them.

The Corbyn fiasco has actually likely damaged all left wing causes by association. The spotty faced activists will fade away once they leave campus with the more intelligent ones ending up as committed capitalists and/or Tory activists.

The right and centre elements of the LP will not make the same mistake again, they will unite behind a candidate unblemished by being part of the Miliband / Balls era.

 

Can you see the connexion between the song titles below and your own analysis?

"Dream a Little Dream" - Louis Armstrong
"I'm Dreaming" - Christopher Williams
"In All My Dreams" - Prince
"I Can Dream About You" - Dan Hartman
"Dream Maker" - Rick James
"California Dreamin'" - The Mamas & the Papas
"Dream Lover" - Ricky Nelson
"Dream Lover" - Mariah Carey
"The Once and Future Dream" - Teena Marie

 

MMM...... Without our dreams where would we be?

e.g.

MLK " I have a dream"

 

I don't think the current spat will destroy the labour Party anymore than the divisions over Europe in the 90s destroyed the Conservatives.

 

Agreed... worrying for the balance of politics in our system.

Also very much part of why I stopped voting Labour over 10 years ago.

 

You're sounding like a 'wet' one.

 

It won't destroy the Labour Party because the centre and right parts will oust the lefties, although this split is much worse than the Tories differences both then and now. It obviously didn't destroy the Tories as they will be in government for at least 10 years.

After the lefties have been purged they will then be able to join up with the communists to create a union funded proper left wing party.