Off Topic Political Debate

I am not sure -it will depend on the constitution of the party won't it? Has it not sometimes been the duty of the Parliamentary Labour Party to make policy? If so I would certainly expect them to consult party members - as well as sound out how party voters might see things

Why not deal with the issues rather than the poster whom you clearly do not respect? He seems to believe that there are some neo-communists inside the new Labour membership - can you refute that ? It is a documented fact that the Soviet Union across many decades has sought influence over the British left. Is it unreasonable for some people to be concerned that this latest left shift and acceptance of new members will not include fellow travellers?

 

Lenny.... I almost bet to myself you would come back in this way...... sort of why I have given up on anything other than ping-pong on this thread.

1) I respect him... because as a quaker he will have come to his beliefs and philosophy in a way which is congruent with his inner core. -That is not say I will vote for him.


2) I really distrust most of the media.... which seek to sell their product and do so by making headlines. I have seen it particularly with Corbyn and his coterie recently.


3) Therefore I have more faith in the integrity and humanity of Corbyn, who is ridiculed pretty much on a daily basis.


All this stuff about leftist tactics etc etc... .that you are talking about here means nothing to me... I am sharing my honest views. I aspire to a world in which there is no left and right... but people living and working together. The destructiveness and negativity created in so many fora is not a place I like to go too often. There are millions like me... probably billions on the planet.

 

No, it was the Labour Party who threw out the Militant Tendency and currently people like Alan Johnson, on the Daily Politics the other day that described the infiltrators as 'communists'. They are hated by the Labour mainstream.

 

Nobody is denying that Corbyn is a decent human being, full stop.
Where people disagree with him is his policies and behaviour.

Whether you like it or not politics consist of varying potential answers to problems. It is relevant to pigeon hole many of these ideas as left, centre or right of the current UK political position. To discuss these options in an open forum is democracy at its best.

 

Thank you Dave - I like you too - a little easier as you are far less vociferous than I am - and I tend to champion unpopular causes and sometimes people (and I don't just mean Corbyn or Cameron) but those closer to home
Yes the media do twist what people say - but they do that to all politicians. Corbyn (in my opinion rightly) said he wished Jihadi John had faced trial rather than summary execution - I agree as a pacifist and someone who opposes the death penalty. However, as a politician is he really so naive to not know how that will play to the public the vast majority of whom relished his being taken out. Also I never have worn a poppy as I believe it institutionalises war and death and glorifies it - a very unpopular view - not least on this board as I found out with same nasty comments a few years back. I would only wear a white poppy if I did to represent the futlity of war while applauding the brave men who lost their lives often led by an uncaring government. I find it disgusting that our men need to rely on charity and are not looked after by the society that killed and maimed them. But I am a private individual and can get away with my unpopular beliefs. If you take an officlal role you accept some uncomfrotable duties and singing the National Anthem, wearing poppies and bowing your head as if you mean it are some of those. By all means do not do it on principle but do not be surprised if it makes you unpopular. I speak from experience.

 

Have to agree about the media - Cameron is not immune from it as we have heard about him wanting to hang Mandela and grinning like a half wit in front of the TV cameras on black Wednesday (not to mention the unmentionable). In a country where the majority of the press is to the right it's no surprise that Corbyn will get a rough ride and his career provides plenty of material.

Whilst I like and respect Corbyn, I think his political past is fair game although I would prefer it to be the subject of slightly more mature debate in the media.

 

That's a great post and I admire anyone who sticks to their guns (sorry) in the face of hostility. All I would say is that Corbyn is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. When he follows his principles he is a traitor - when he conforms he is a hypocrite.

 

It would be very good if we could get down to discussing options and policies on here ie. exactly which policies of Corbyn's do you detest so much ? Once you have begun to answer that then we can start debating properly - as long as you are just talking about 'lefties' and 'communists' at every turn that is not possible.

 

Is it because his views are so out of kilter with the British public?

 

Once again can we get down to talking about his views rather than making generalisations about everything ?

 

The 'communist' tag describing the infiltrators was from Alan Johnson, a Labour Party stalwart, ex home secretary.
I oppose almost every policy preferred by Corbyn but I would rather leave it to the Oldham voters to judge him.

 

Can I wish all of my 'friends' a great weekend and hopefully 3 points tomorrow.

 

No I don't think so SH - I just do not think the British public (please forgive the generalisation) like people betraying their principles. Let's be honest - the Lib Dems are condemned for a long time after some of the things they agreed to.

In terms of policies being out of kilter with the public I think we still have to wait and see - though I think you'll probably be proved right.

 

No.

Well, you did ask.

 

Ok di*khead, I'll leave you out.

 

You're such a warm, cuddly guy, super that I know you don't mean it.

 

Corbyn might be a very nice man, I don't know, but he was elected to lead the Parliamentary Labour Party as the official opposition to the government. This means acting in such a way that the opposition can oppose and not have a very visible tearing apart.

MPs are elected as representatives, not delegates, and if their electorate do not like what they say they can remove them at the next election. Clearly they will listen to what is said in their local meetings, but at the end of the day they have to follow what they believe is right for the country, even if it is not what the locals wish to hear.

 

I answer honestly, without personal attack and try to explain my own views thoughts and ideas - and that is predictable and makes you give up on this thread does it. I think I cannot win with you. I do not claim to be right in anything I say - only that what I say I believe - is that not honesty and integrity?
We all come to our beliefs somehow - I do not see the relevance of adding a semi-religious dimension. I said I respected Corbyn - most people seem to.
Who does trust the media? Their job is to sell. Do we like salesmen? The media attacks all parties and politicians when they can - it sells; we tend to notice and dislike most the attack on those we like.
Corbyn does appear to have integrity and humanity - but that is not the issue - he is proposing himself as a future Prime Minister - he will be tested far more rigorously than he is now if he gets near to achieving that. Corbyn sets himself up when he cannot simply do the things he dislikes but which are essentially an expected part of his job. If he wants to buck the system he knows he will faxce a backlash by those who do not want to see it bucked. He is in politics after all. You just do not seem to like party politics - as you have said on here many times - but it is what it is about. If this thread is anathema to you why do not simply stick to those you like? Or start a "nice politics" thread. Freedom means each of us make our own choices.

 

Is that what passes for polite discourse at the Rotary Club these days? Standards eh?

 

I think that was a weird attempt at humour