I know for a fact that RK told Davis that even though he had taken a knock in the game, taking him off against Leicester was a mistake (we were shocking in the 2nd half) and that even if he needed a pain killing injection, he wanted him to start against Liverpool. Even injured, the manager still wants him in the team. That is how highly he is rated.
What would you rather have, Davis starting and e.g Gaston on the bench? Or a better player than Davis starting and Davis on the bench? Obviously there are better players than SD around, it's just they may not suit the team as well as he does - that's the issue.
Much depends on your definition of "better player". Gaston is more skilful, but lacks the work rate and defensive cover Davis gives us. If you could merge the two players, into one, with Gaston's skills, touch and vision allied to Davis' work rate and defensive/positional nous, you would possibly have the perfect attacking midfielder. Until that can be arranged, I'd stick with Davis as his all round qualities, with the occasional goal and assist, would outweigh those of Gaston.
I'm not sure merging Gaston's 'vision' would be a good idea. I have been told on many occasions that the other players are not capable of seeing what he sees so that would mean Davis would start passing to nobody as well unless you just meant younger eyes. Davis' through balls are actually quite good. A few times he has played people in with a cheeky scoop over the defence
I remember Chaplow was once referred to in print as a "journeyman" footballer. Davis is not a fashionable player but he's a bit more than a journeyman. Whether he could take the team to a top four finish as a starter is another matter.
Saying Gaston is more skillful is a fairly bold statement, I certainly haven't seen to much evidence of that. What I have seen is very, very consistent performances by Steve Davis and fleeting mediocre games by Gaston that go nowhere near justifying the price tag?
Ramirez hasn't been healthy, and was a poor fit for Pochettino's system as neither defending nor retaining possession were his forte. It's more that he hasn't played, than that he's played poorly. But the people who think Davis is incredible are likely going to be the people who dislike Ramirez the most. It comes down to some extent to how you evaluate players. "Great/Important player for Saints" <> Great player. We've seen this with Lallana, Lovren, Lambert, and others. Davis fits Saints and has contributed much more than Ramirez has, or probably ever would have had he been healthy. Not sure I'd say Davis is a better player.
Agreed. What does skill mean? Davis probably has the best first touch of anybody in the team, does that not constitute skill?
I think it's easy to mistake "flashy" or "elegant" for "more skilful". With Gaston there's a certain elegance to his play that looks delightful; his passes are things of beauty. Davis passes efficiently and effectively with no flair or elegance. What matters to me is that Steve does it half a dozen times a game, whereas Gaston does it once every half dozen games. Here's an example. David looks up, dummies someone twenty feet away and gets it through. Beautiful, but workmanlike enough not to be noticed or commented on: Vin
To be fair they are two different types of player. So to compare Davis with Gaston is a bit misleading in my view. They are meant for different jobs within the team .
Not odd, unless we're both odd [isn't two even.?] because I like both Davis and Ramirez too. I wish, wish, wish, that Ramirez just had that little bit of whatever it takes to make it consistently in the PL. If/when he returns to Serie A he'll become a hero again, I've little doubt, and even now I'd love him to stay because of the player he could be.
I dunno, man. This thread is in danger of turning Steven Davis into one of those guys who is so frequently said to be underrated that he becomes overrated. Davis is very important to the side... but so is every other starter. People complained about how much worse we are when Yoshida plays RB instead of Saores. Or talk about how much better we are when Bertrand came back. What about Wanyama? Mane? Tadic? Fonte? Lovren was good, and then Alderweireld was good and then VVD is good. So while all the players are hugely valuable while they are here... they also aren't quite as great or irreplaceable as it might appear. All of the starters we have are important to the team, and good team players because we are a smaller club and can't pay guys like Oscar to come off the bench because Willian doesn't feel like running today. The sum is greater than the parts. That's how we keep defying expectations. Our players all punch above their weight, so the team does as well.
This is a common misconception about Ramirez it seems. I thought I'd do some research to add fuel to my argument here. Sorry for going in depth here, I got carried away and if you keep reading you'll realise why. Ramirez in Serie A: 58 appearances (43 starts, 15 sub appearances): 12 goals, 6 assists Ramirez in Premier League (for Southampton): 46 appearances (23 starts, 23 sub apperances): 7 goals, 9 assists. This means Ramirez is directly contributing to a goal every about 2.9 games in the PL, compared to every about 3.2 in Serie A. When we consider only 50% of his PL games (appearances) for us have been starts, compared to almost 75% for Bologna it goes to show his end product has very clearly been better for us than it was for Bologna. What's more is his passing accuracy has improved, as has his defensive contribution. He also turns the ball over and gets dispossessed for us less than he did for Bologna. I want to highlight something else too. Lallana only got 10 assists for us in the PL according to the stats in 63 starts (5 sub appearances) and 10 goals. That's means he was directly contributing a goal for us every 3.15 games in the PL. He also had in his favour that almost all of his games were starts, compared to only 50% of Ramirez' being starts. The fee we paid for Gaston was down to the potential we thought he had. We expected him to improve more than he did. We need to bear in mind that almost all of his starts we the season we finished 15th. He might argue he hasn't had a fair shot since then. He isn't that bad of a player and has arguably been unfairly treated the last couple of seasons. I'm not a big Gaston fan either, it just interests me he hasn't had more chances. The stats suggest he hasn't done too badly for us. In fact if you compare him with Lallana, the stats suggest Ramirez has done well when he's had opportunities. He's still only 24 now and might improve some more. I feel if he was English he'd have had way more chances. And if we're being fair to Ramirez he started most of his games for us when some of the players were only Championship quality. Honestly, I didn't expect the stats to be like this. It's actually interesting they came out like they did. It suggests he should have had more starts for us since 2012/13. The comparison to Lallana is amazing and remarkable in a way considering how highly rated Lallana was by Saints fans. Ramirez has contributed 16 goals in only 23 starts. Whilst Lallana only contributed 20 goals in 63 starts.There isn't much to choose between their specific attacking and defensive contributions according to the stats either. I was always one that thought Lallana was massively over-rated and over-hyped. So I admit these findings make me happy
That was a good read Tintin. Despite your well researched comparison stats, I still think that he was actually more appreciated in Bologna than here with us, as he had already built a fair burgeoning reputation and a host of Youtube videos. Are there any since.? And perhaps he might have encountered less injuries, in the supposedly less physical Serie A, if he had stayed there. At 24, he still could make it in the PL, and why not with Saints.? It would please me no end to hear that he has accepted an extension to his contract. I've never quite been convinced that he doesn't have what it takes, but perhaps a return to a welcoming Serie A is what he needs for himself at this stage of his career. I could understand that.
In the early Gaston Bashing days, I did go in recited and say that he was a young man with bags of talent, who he just moved to a foreign country, that if we ditched him back then, we'd be seeing him in Champions League football in the future. He still has that talent. I do question his desire/state of mind as to his fit here, but talented he is. Mercurial.
