Off Topic France under attack

Stereo: "being born somewhere shouldn't decide if you live or die"

It does though. If you're born here you've won the lottery because you have a great chance at life, despite the fact that many Muslims born here hate us and Britain. If you're born in Eritrea you have a high chance that you will die young. That's why we have an aid budget - to try and help these people in their own countries. Are you suggesting that we take thousands upon thousands more? If we do, the quality of life here for everyone will suffer, indigenous and migrant alike.

Matt's bird table exists because he has money to pay for it that he has worked hard for. He chooses to give the seed away for free because he's generous. Sometimes, the birds come because it's free.

No, we are not all equal in this world. That's the way of things whether we like it or not. But ordinary, decent people like TLF above are moving to the right of politics because he feels (as do I) that we've been pushed too far. That the freedoms our forefathers died to protect are not only being simply given away to unelected bureaucrats in Brussels but that the failure of multiculturalism that has been forced onto us is destroying nation states' culture and values. There is a feeling now throughout Europe that we are having the piss taken out of us and enough is enough.

 

Reverse that thought , why should innocent people die because they happen to live in a civilised country or that they happen not to follow an ideology or that they had no choice as to where they were born , why does that give someone the right to end their lives ?
I maybe wrong but you give the impression that you feel that our borders should be uncontrolled and that we owe the rest of the world free passage to our country without thinking of the consequences . I'm in my late fifties so I'll never see the extent of uncontrolled migration which will cost this country but I have children and grandchildren ,they will have no choice in their futures because of liberal minded politicians who are playing with fire and the bonfires are getting bigger .

 

The best way to insure no terrorists come through to the West , within escaping civilians , is to make it possible that civilians have no reason to leave their native lands .
Boots on the ground in vast numbers , with a shoot first and ask questions later, will see some innocent people killed but innocent people are being killed now without any pressure on the terrorists.

 

To me this is a complex situation with two main problems, one being external and one being internal.. The external being IS and other similar organisations who the French President said last night has declared war on France and I think also on the rest of the West. They are despots who hang their cause on certain ideals where the think they think they can get a reaction from misinformed and easily led people. This has happened many times throughout historry The Americans claim to have killed 20,000 IS fighters and I think it is up to the rest of us to follow suit and destroy them with military force. I know the Russians back the Syrian government but after the bomb on their airliner they may change their mind. The internal problem is even more complex. Hitler and his thuggish madmen came to power by picking on minorities in Germany e.g. the Jewish community and gypsies etc. There is a party in this country, whose name I cant remember, with a woman leader shown on television a week or so ago, who are doing the same to Muslims Most Muslims want to live in peace and bring up their families just like everyone else. The other problem is that we have allowed too many immigrants and too many alien cultures to come into this country too quickly thus not giving us time to assimilate them properly. They have been supported by mainly left wing 'do gooders' who want us to adopt their culture and give up ours. My father died 35 years ago and he had a brother living in Oxford street. If they came back now and saw St. Helen's road they wouldn't believe it.

 

As I said in my first post - I'm playing devils advocate. I agree with a lot of what's being said, but I also feel that there's certain things being overlooked and it's not as black and white as we like to think.

Matt, of course, nobody has the right to kill someone - it's a no brainer to civilised people. I also don't believe we should just be opening doors to anyone who wants to come here just because they want to be living the life of a scummy British chav screwing the benefit system who prefers Special Brew to a bird feeder with his 'hard earned' money. I much prefer the aid route that Kifflom mentioned.

I do believe in immigration/emigration. Not at any cost, but I do believe everyone should be able to have a dream of living and working somewhere, and it should be achievable. I moved to Australia a few years ago, I applied for a job, got it and moved there. I'm thankful for that opportunity. I like the idea that if a person is the best person for a job, they should be able to take that job, no matter where they come from, no matter where the job is. Many people move to cities in the UK chasing their careers, it's the same principle, just across borders rather than counties.

I have also spent a considerable amount of time in the Philippines, where most grow up hoping of being able to find a job abroad. Many achieve that, how would we cope here without many of their Nurses ? This is the type of immigration I agree with.

 

Or the Hafod.

 

Stereo i agree with some of your last points and if all that wanted to visit here had no ulterior motives but to have a holiday or fill a vacancy in a job that our own could`nt or would`nt fill then thats great and works both ways. But the government have not done their job of managing, educating and training our own to fill the job vacancies over decades WHY ? for various reasons and their self interests, and the stored up problems are plain to see here now.
The hard choices that would rectify the situation are available but years of PC dumbing down have turned a lot of the marshmallow brained sheep here into zombies accepting their lot from the tv and other propaganda media outlets, just as the government minions and their masters wanted it !

 

Stereo: I lived in Australia too. It was bloody hard to get in because of their points system, and I bet it was for you as well. In fact I would have failed had it not been for my wife being a nurse. I had to retrain and sit exams after I got there. Most here don't object to skilled, limited migration like that. It's great for the migrants and good for us. UKIP have proposed a similar system for the UK but it can't happen unless we Brexit.

But the mass, uncontrolled immigration that the Blair Government promoted and our membership of the EU has exacerbated has been a nightmare for this country, with housing shortages and problems with social cohesion. The idea that millions upon millions of poor people without skills can simply relocate to the Europe/ UK from parts of Eastern Europe and Sub-Saharan Africa is unrealistic and downright dangerous.

 

I don't think this was a coordinated attack at allI.
I believe all terrorist resources were meant for the football game but something went wrong.
Why go into the stadium when they could just wait for everyone to come out, including France's president.
Two suicide bombers and a planted bomb and very few were killed around the stadium.
Once the first bomb went off early , for whatever reason , the cat was out of the bag and the terrorists had to come up with a plan b.
The terrorist numbers don't really add up for me and I think the drive by shooters at the restaurant were part of the 4 that entered the concert.
I seen a guy interviewed that escaped the concert when the terrorists were reloading , climbing over bodies and finding an exit at the front of the hall, carriying a teenage girl who was shoot twice and got her in a cab and sent her off to the hospital thinking she wasn't going to make it .
The most interesting thing he said was that all he did was show his ticket to enter at the start of the concert and he and his bag were never checked.
Any coordination went out the door for the terrorists as soon as the early bomb went off imo , the attacks after that were by the seat of their pants , made up as they went.

 

It's possible. I do agree that it looks like the stadium bombs didn't go as planned. If they had I'm guessing we'd be looking at another hundred dead at least.

 

Stereo , I appreciate that the issues are complex , people are humans so complexity follows , but we're being forced into trying to integrate a religious group who don't want to integrate and who's' beliefs are the opposite of western ideals or values .As you say no civilised person would want to kill someone in normal circumstances but to try and integrate believers in a faith which advocates death to non believers will never work and hasn't , certainly not if you' have extremist views
.The idea of a utopia where all peoples live in peace is admirably but impossible due to the one common denominator which prevents this and that is religion .
I have no issues with anyone wanting to assimilate themselves into our society , as you say where would the NHS be without the overseas staff but uncontrolled migration with no controls or checks and balances can only lead to more situations which are already developing in this country

Published in January this year Chief Inspector of Constabulary Tom Winsor confirmed why police officers do not respond in some neighbourhoods:

"There are some communities born under other skies who will not involve the police at all. I am reluctant to name the communities in question, but there are communities from other cultures who would prefer to police themselves"

 

he Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
The underwear Bomber was a Muslim
The U-S.S. Cole Bombers were Muslims
The Madrid Train Bombers were Muslims
The Bafi Nightclub Bombers were Muslims
The London Subway Bombers were Muslims
The Moscow Theatre Attackers were Muslims
The Boston Marathon Bombers were Muslims
The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims
The Air France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims
The Iranian Embassy Takeover, was by Muslims
The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were Muslims
The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Musiims
The Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims
The Israeli Olympic Team Attackers were Muslims
The Kenyan U.S, Embassy Bombers were Muslims
The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims
The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims
The Besian Russian School Attackers were Muslims
The first World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims
The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were Muslims
The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims
The September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims
The Charlie Hebdo attackers were Muslims
The November 13 2015 terrorists were Muslims

 

One of them had a ticket to the game, but was turned away at the turnstiles. I think their true aim was to detonate inside in full view. This attack was well planned.

 

....but it's a religion of peace, Matt!

Confirmed now that two of the attackers at least were 'fake refugees'. Let ANYONE say Farage is an idiot now!!!

 

I would like to think that all these innocent ones that were slaughtered, didn't die in vain, and that all European leaders, including Britain will unite in solidarity to effect a plan that will end this despicable demonic cult of Is, until radicalism and terrorism is extinguished there will be no 'Peace and Security'......................

 

It is true that most Muslims live their lives peacefully. But a sizeable portion (around 25/27% per cent and more in most surveys ) follow the more radical version. The remainder are sitting on a religion which is, in many of its current forms, a deeply unstable component. That has always been a problem for reformist Muslims. But the results of ongoing mass immigration to the West at the same time as a worldwide return to Islamic literalism means that this is now a problem for all of us. To stand even a chance of dealing with it, we are going to have to wake up to it and acknowledge it for what it is.

 

Most Muslims will denounce this event , and most of them will , quietly ,snicker to themselves .

 

moderate muslims !

 

None of you know **** all about orthodox Islamic teachings.

That is quite clear to see

Set of bigots on the whole. It's about as much of a debate as you bigots deserve. Anything more and your brains would fizzle.