History of banning things doesn't have a good success rate: Romans ban Christianity, ends up state religion Catholics ban Protestants, decades of war and centuries of hatred, score draw. Soviets ban religion, as soon as they turn their backs it's back stronger than before, both Orthodox and Islamic varieties. Chinese, failing to learn from history, try the same thing, getting bombed by Muslims and worried by weird Christian sects Turks try to ban Kurds and Armenians. Fail. US government tries to ban booze, spectacular fail. You can't, and shouldn't, ban ideas and beliefs. They go underground develop an even stronger sense of grievance, and end up even nuttier. You should talk about them and expose their stupidity as often and as publicly as possible. And guess what, it works. Levels of atheism and people declaring themselves 'of no religion' surging everywhere, and every event like yesterday's adds to the groundswell of disgust and free thinking. One day we will be free of this idiocy, and not because of banning.
I echo the others Staines, it's good to hear from you. I thought the same yesterday believing they were probably home grown (3rd /4th generation) however the closure of boarders would point to the opposite.
Thanks mate, struggle to find time to post at work nowadays so my replies and posts are mostly short and not always sweet. As I said on the first post, I could be wrong, and sadly it looks like I might very well be.
It's interesting that this massacre is exercising us today (and quite rightly), yet when a Russian plane was brought down over Sinai, killing 224 including children, the main reaction by the British was - will our Egyptian holiday have to be rescheduled. Why's that? Don't we care about Russian children? Weren't we sure it was ISIS - we knew pretty soon after it went down? Is it because we don't see the blood and sheet covered bodies? Do we feel more affinity with France, perhaps now we're connected by a tunnel or in the EU?
I find it hard to believe that a bunch of Syrian IS terrorists just turned up in France and did this without significant local support in selecting targets, finding arms etc. They may have been in France for months or years, not part of the current influx of immigrants. Also interesting that a few weeks ago a similar number of people were killed in a probable IS bombing in Ankara, with much lower media attention. The Turkish government is pretty odious but they really are on the front line on this ****. Echoes Goldies comments on the Russian airliner.
I was thinking the same when these tragic events were unfolding last night ? There have been numerous bombings and large scale loss of life recently in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan through terrorist atrocities...but they sometimes just merit a footnote on page 17. Why is it that these events merit so much more attention ? Is it 'cos it's that much closer to home ? Genuine question
The muslim people and leaders DO demonstrate their hatred for the way their religion has been usurped as a handy hook to hang bile and violence on. They declare this all the time? Are you not listening?
I've just driven six miles. In that time on the radio, there were several muslim leaders of different denominations, all roundly condemning this. I hear their condemnation all the time. EVERY muslim denomination has denounced Islamic State. Every single one has stated that they are nothing to do with their faith, and their actions are completely incompatible with the words in the Koran. Don't just get your news from the red-tops and Daily Mail, mate. Open your ears and eyes, and please don't hate millions of peaceful muslims for the actions of a few murderous bastards.
Well guys, I write this in a state of semi-shock. Last night, my wife and I shut our windows, after hearing distant noise, which sounded like an explosion. We now know that would have been one of the explosions at the theatre, which is just down the road. We live in the 11th. My wife has often had lunch at the restaurant where the shooting happened. We stayed home last night, listening to sirens in our area all night long. This morning, I woke up to work being cancelled, as all tourists have been advised to stay indoors, actually, all of us have been advised to stay in doors. This afternoon news has reached us that a friend of friend, who we met at a party, was killed last night. What happened in Paris last night was disgusting, inhumane and sickening. This morning, as I sat and watched the news, I was reminded of this clip from West Wing; As a Christian, I would not consider my beliefs to have anything in common with the KKK, they, and their values disgust me. I think many Muslims feel the same about the actions of IS. I don't claim that more can't be done to out extremist groups, I'm sure it can, and those who can do more and don't should be held to account...but casting a shadow over a whole people group because of such a small percentage of idiot extremists seems unfair. However, if it is discovered that there are links to Syria (just read about the Syrian passports found near one of the terrorists body), Assad should be held to account, and face the consequences.
I have a horrible feeling that we subconsciously feel that Western European lives are of more value than middle eastern ones. Plus it's easier to imagine the same thing happening to us looking at Paris than looking at Kabul. I hope I am just stunningly cynical. As I posted earlier Chaz, declarations have to be coupled with action, they have to be seen to be identifying and handing over the jihadists who worship at the same mosques as them. Perhaps they are already and the police are keeping it quiet to avoid reprisals. But we tend to see British authorities being blamed for young British Muslim girls somehow getting to Syria etc. And as I've said before I really couldn't care less about schisms within Islam, it's their problem not mine, they need to sort it out. And they have ample reason to, IS is slaughtering far more Muslims (Sunni as well as Shia) than non Muslims. Perhaps moderate Muslims around the world should raise an army and seek help to get to Syria/Iraq to fight the people they claim are besmirching their faith. I sure they have the numbers and the money, do they have the will?
My view. If you asked the Muslim leaders what they really think, they'd say, you should never have invaded Iraq, bombing Baghdad indiscriminately and killing hundreds of thousands of muslims, and leading to sunni's at the throats of shia's that has led to thousands of deaths... And a good deal of non-muslims in the UK (including me) would agree, certainly with the benefit of hindsight But then the Muslim leaders would say...so now the West is reaping what it sowed. I felt that was the attitude of Muslim leaders after 9/11. That's what's led to disquiet in the general UK populace. But...what ISIS is doing in Iraq and Syria is so gross that, I believe, the average Muslim in the UK understands now that ISIS must be taken down
