Off Topic Political Debate

Not sure where to put this but some more sad news in France.

18 at least killed in more terror attacks on Paris.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34814203

 

Looks as if there was a concerted attack in different areas of the city, but so far no information is being given. Latest death toll is thought to be 26. Reports also that 60 are being held hostage in a theatre.

 

It sounds horrendous. So hard to protect people against such attacks in busy city centres. We can only hope the reported large number of hostages are somehow freed.

 

Agreed. So much confusion and misinformation - we have been here so many times before - thoughts are with Paris and France

 

Unlike the UK Friday 13th is thought to be a lucky day. Not so on this one.

If all the reports that the French news agencies are coming out with turn out to be correct, then this will be a major disaster. Seems that the gunmen are still on the loose and moving nearer to the very centre of the city.

 

At times like this I feel France as a brother nation. As said before Islam is evil and Paris is one of the most vulnerable to the evil that is the Algerian element....

 

It makes the argument to exit the EU even easier

 

Simple solution if its as you state is to remove all close contacts between moslems and the west. It's simple to do that you just send them all to Africa and close off all immigration from islamic states, stop all trade with islamic states, stop all contact with islamic states, according to your theory this would stop terrorism..... I do agree that Islam is incompatible wit western civilization but that doesn't mean I would condone changing western civilization to suit Islam, if the islamic world wants the good bits of the west (health, long life, opportunity) then it has to stop fighting western value sets.

 

It is part of a chain Aberdeen, which we have to break. These attacks will lead to more people like yourself, people who blame an entire World religion of 1.7 billion people for the crimes of 20-30 people (not sure of the correct number here) - this in turn leads to more difficult living conditions for all Moslems living here - more confrontation with Islamophobia, all of which leads to more recruitment for ISIS. Are you also going to send third generation Moslems 'back to Islamic countries', people who were born in Bradford, Birmingham, Duisburg or Paris ? The way you speak about the Algerian population of France, one would forget that the French fought such a brutal colonial war to suppress Algerian independence - and this within living memory, and that they still commemorate the soldiers who were there. Now is the time to engage with the larger body of Islam who also abhore these acts - together.

 

Allowing that anybody committing an act like this in the UK. would probably have been born in Bradford or Birmingham, and, if not, would probably come from Islamic states (ie. they would not be carrying passports from EU. nations) then what the hell does this have to do with EU membership ? Surely working more closely within the EU. allows the police forces of Europe to work together more effectively.

 

This is nothing to do with the EU.. .actually more to do with NATO.... and France is one of the few NATO countries that has acted against terrorism in Syria

Let us please stand united and condemn terrorism and the terrible deaths of ordinary people of all colours and faiths.

Paul Rodgers Professor of Peace Studies this morning said that if we respond to this with Islamaphobia we are fulling into just the trap of the terrorists who want to start a war with the west.

Be very careful. Those of you who have such views, I suggest you talk to Muslim friends and colleagues.. and you will no doubt find that they are equally abhorred and frightened by these horrific acts.

 

As in Ireland during the troubles there is only a small minority actively involved in terrorism BUT there is a sizeable minority with varying degrees of sympathy for the terrorists aims. The general Islamic population in the western world could, and should do more to root out the jihadists in their communities.

The 'open border' idea of the UE has, and will, contribute towards the aims of attacking western soft targets. Can Cologne guarantee there are not hardened ISIS terrorists amongst the vast hoards of migrants arriving. If he does not agree with sending them back can he keep them in Germany so we don't have to deal with them.

 

I cannot guarantee anything. But when I see somebody who needs help I help them - who knows the person who I pull out of a burning car could turn out to be a mass rapist - so was I wrong to save him ? I do not think that people from ISIS would cross the Mediterranean in flimsy boats or cross the Balkans by foot, they have other ways of operating - but I cannot prove this. My belief is that for every one terrorist who came in this way there will be a hundred who become so because of our Islamophobia. The mere fact that 3rd or 4th generation children born in Paris are referred to as Algerian tells us a lot. I do not want to live in a society which 'counts the cost' before helping somebody in need.

 

Trying to limit the danger from jihadists is not Islamophobia it is common sense. The problem with liberal attitudes like yours and presumably Merkel's is that your open door policy endangers everybody in Europe. Nobody knows how many ISIS terrorists are returning or moving to Europe but to have no checks is irresponsible at best, criminal at worse.

Are you somehow justifying why British born terrorists blow up innocent people on UK buses and trains?

 

People were blown up last night for goodness sake...

 

Thank you - nothing more to add.

 

That is why the subject should be treated seriously.

 

It is Islamophobia to equate a whole religion with terrorism and to tar it all with the same brush - it excludes people from a sense of belonging to our society. If second or third generation migrants do not feel that they belong in our society and are also distanced to the value systems of their parents then they exist in a kind of grey world in which the preachers of hate have an easy time. France has a large Algerian population which mostly lives in small ghettoes on the outskirts of Paris - highly disadvantaged and not only excluded from real 'French' society, but made fun of by organs of the French media such as Charlie Hebdo. This is not an excuse for them but explains maybe why the more politically aware amongst them move in the direction of terrorism - if not in that direction then petty crime. If you add to that the fact that France is the most active NATO combatant in Syria (despite its horrific colonial past in the Arab World) then you have a powder keg situation. Things like this effect all of us, they make us want to cry for the sufferers - and they make us feel unsafe, because if it can happen there, then why not in London ? There are thousands of people who have to live with this type of fear every day in Palestine, Syria, Iraq and Pakistan very largely as a result of our interference.

 

There was absolutely no justification for jihadists from Bradford to plant bombs in London. They were simply brainwashed into cruelty. The problem was the Uk was too preoccupied with PC to adequately deal with the threat of radicalisation in certain mosques, schools. Hopefully there is more surveillance now, the moderate islamists must make more effort to stop these thugs.

 

Just reported on 5-Live that the news wires are reporting that one of these scum had a Syrian Passport on what was left of his body. IF true, it puts a whole different slant on this discussion.
Throwing the Islamophobia card is the same as throwing the Racist card. Allowing hundreds of thousands of Muslims into countries where the culture is vastly at odds with their own is a recipe for disaster. Last night the target was our culture as much as the poor souls caught up in it.
But never mind, carry on with the semi-justification based on the same old arguments - colonial past, politically aware people moving to terrorism....it just beggars belief