Off Topic Political Debate

Merkel's stupid and selfish decision to open Europe to all who fancied a new life has repercussions far beyond Germany's borders. I can only assume the shame of the country's past is behind such a foolish move in addition to solving its labour shortage.

Must Europe be run by the Germans?

 

The UK has every right to concentrate on the threat from Islamic extremists. They are the group trying to take down our aircraft, planting bombs on our buses and trains and beheading our citizens. They are known to be planning murder in the UK on a large scale, maybe a football ground or shopping centre.

To downplay this threat by quoting 'Christian' atrocities seems to miss the point entirely.

 

Germany actually has the 3rd highest number of international migrants Worldwide. 16 million of the population are of foreign/immigrant descent - I actually find that improves the quality of live in Germany (better than being surrounded only by Germans). This high level of immigration is despite the country not having a very good reputation in terms of successfull integration, and also having a language which is useless outside of Germany, Austria and Switzerland. The main reason why Germany has such high immigration is its central position and also having 9 land borders - the main attraction of the UK. has little to do with economics but more with language ie. many people speak English already, and even if they don't the learning of the language will be usefull to them in the future - perhaps as a means into the USA. Australia etc.

 

There are actually 1.6 billion Moslems in the World - I think that if even 1% of that total were active terrorists then they would have control of the World now. What I meant by the 'holocaust' mentality was the tendency to lump all people into one catagory (like the Nazis did) and then use that to search for 'final solutions' - Europe has seen a major rise of Islamophobia which is not dissimilar to the anti semitism of the past.

 

Was it an option to refuse help to people in need ? Do you stop to think about the consequences when you see someone drowning in a river - I mean who knows, he might be a terrorist or want to live on your social security ? Mistakes or otherwise Merkel showed a 'human' reaction which I personally am proud of at least in comparison with the small minded angst ridden politics coming out of the UK. at the moment. And no Germany does not have to lead the EU. they can be outvoted at any time and on any issue - but, is it realistic to think that Germany will continue to be the largest payer into the EU. without having any proportionate influence ? Maybe if the UK. had spent the last 20 or so years being a constructive member of the EU. rather than continuously bitching from the sidelines then things would be different now.

 

Merkel's open door policy may have suited some within her borders but it was an incredible show of arrogance and disregard for fellow EU nations. The only positive outcome will be the death of the misguided Schengen agreement.

As the UK does not want to be part of a political union dominated by Germany we have been the only ones to have enough sense to oppose the self-serving policies of the fiddling eurocrats in Brussels.

The Euro is still in mortal danger, just a matter of time before it collapses. It cannot survive without fiscal and political union which many states will not sign up to. I suspect all that will be left is a loose trading block of North European nations, although France's uncompetitiveness against Germany will be an ever growing problem.

 

How on earth can you equate something done on humanitarian grounds as 'arrogant'. What was she supposed to do ignore the human catastrophe which was building up in Hungary ? It is very, very easy to do nothing but criticize - better would be to offer alternatives. If Germany has arrived at a strong position within the EU. there is only one reason for that namely the everlasting inability of Britain and France to work together. Germany's success has been to avoid the political extremes ie. to be able to place itself on a political spectrum which is always between Britain and France.

 

Well I was responding to a different point.

I was replying to the posts in the main from Aberdeen which seem to indicate that Muslims are the main problem in the world etc etc. Such generalizations are actually not educated. and of course lead to divisions based on groupthink and not fact.

It is very difficult to have a coherent discussion when such assertions are made. Of course terrorism must be stopped. But just as every black person is not a cannabis user so every muslim clearly is not a terrorist.

The same argument can be made for those who choose to condemn an entire nation due to Volkswagen cars coming from Germany etc. (Incidentally I own an affected car and it does not adversely affect on my view of the country called Germany).

 

Merkel should have insisted that EU countries follow EU law by forcing the country in which they first land to deal with the problem. If they cannot manage then the flow should be stopped at source, by force if necessary. Her actions were arrogant because she had no regard for the effects on other European countries.

Germany and France has far more political extremes than the UK. The communists and the far right are much stronger than in the UK.

 

Your assertions seem to echo a far right agenda?

Not sure what evidence you have for Merkel and 'arrogance' ? I actually have not read anything she has said on this subject that aligns with that view?

 

Not a far right agenda at all, just a sensible view that society requires law and order. I'm not sure why you cannot understand that Merkel coming up with a policy that may suit Germany but may harm other countries is not arrogant and selfish. I thought the idea of the EU is to have a common policy after discussion?

Does this not include the dominant Germans?

 

Your pie chart refers to deaths caused by muslim versus non muslim nations, given that non muslim includes all the world wars and communist holocausts its a bit of a stretch to make that a christian vs muslim comparison. I'm happy for them to go and kill each others in their Sunni vs Shea world but keep out of Europe, I am islamophobic and have zero intention of changing.

 

The countries which are the first to receive these people should not be punished for their geographical location - it is a 'European' problem. How can you turn back women and children who have just survived such a precarious trip over the med. ? Send them back to homes that no longer exist by force ? In 1939 Britain was prepared to take refugees from other nations - then it was the 'land of the free' and Germany was the opposite - has the pendulum turned ? Before shaking your head and saying 'nothing to do with us' or 'that's their problem' you might like to consider firstly Britain's role as a weapon exporter and how they profit from wars, and secondly the human rights violations of Britain's colonial past and how Britain might, just, have some more obligations now - does it not disturb you when Germany takes in refugees from Nigeria ? An ex colony of Britain's whose citizens fought together with Britain in 2 World Wars - now needing asylum from Germany because Britain will not take them - hang your head in shame !

 

I see Cameron's wishy washy list of proposed reforms has already been rubbished by the eurocrats as 'highly problematic' and 'illegal'. If he cannot even secure these watered down demands then how can he return from Brussels with a positive spin on the re negotiations.

 

The Germans will have to do a lot more humanitarian work before the memory of them murdering millions of innocent people will die.

 

Do you ever actually read other people's texts and think of answering them or do you just have a list of standard 'party' responses, snide comments and really underhand arguments all to be used at will ? This post has absolutely nothing to do with the present argument - because we are speaking about a completely different generation - who do you mean by 'them' - do you mean my wife as well (because she is German). How is it that my town has a partnership with one in Poland and we have so many here from Poland and Russia ? 2 nations who suffered immeasurably more than Britain did - why can they forgive but not you ? Stop basing your arguments on the Victor or the Valiant or any of their images of Germany and then, maybe, we can have a discussion between adults.

 

Oh dear - you're a lot better than that SH

 

Sorry but my opinion is not "uneducated" it comes from an education both literal and by experience. My experience living in the Islamic world in the mid 1990s lead me to comment at the time that the biggest danger to world peace and eradication of poverty was the islamic world and nothing since that time has lead me in any alternate direction. As Islam is a religion and not a race people who are affected by it can be educated out of it, no final solution needed but a non acceptance of Islam in the same manner as we do not accept *****phylia is how society must deal with this. My opinions are based on fact, the fact that it is within the very nature of the religion to perform acts that are abhorent to civilized persons. Cologne as for your assertion regarding Germany and migration I'd like to know where you get your information from, before this current crisis German population was in decline with nett migration in 2014 still below UK levels. As for having most descendents of migrants or actual migrants thats baloney, the USA has way more than any other nation on earth being almost exclusively migrant lead..

 

How can you feel it is right and proper to discuss the UK's' human rights violations of its colonial past' but not mention Germany's wholesale slaughter of innocent people, ethnic cleansing on a scale far far worse than any previous atrocities.

As previous posters have alluded to Germany's migrant policy is for economic reasons primarily.

Merkel's actions will result in a massive boost for the current Nazis in your country.

 

I said the third highest - meaning numbers of immigrants or descendents of immigrants. Which statistics measure only up to the 3rd generation. Somebody called Grabowski whose ancestors arrived in the Ruhr in the 19th C. would not appear here. The statistics are easily obtainable by googling 'foreign population of Germany'. This is balanced by emigration - there are 8 million Germans living abroad (the number of British citizens living abroad is 6 million). It is true that the German population is going down and that, demographically speaking, Germany profits from immigration - without it the future pensions will not be payed. But, and this is a big but, the UK. also needs immigration to keep the balance between working and non working population.