Wilshere and Rosicky were injured before the season even started.....I think people keep forgetting, or never knew that.We went into the season with 3 players already out, Wellbeck, Wilshere, and Rosicky. Add the fact that we got rid of a Diaby, a midfielder, we went into the season missing 4 outfield players, 3 midfielders, and one who operates as a winger-midfielder, I don't care what way you put it, in that circumstance, we should have gone out and bought another outfield player. Also Arteta-Flamini and even Wilshere are not 'excellent' players, so there we go with that fallacy again, acting like there aren't better options in the market to go and buy, you really telling me we couldn't go out and find a better player than Arteta and Flamini and just getting rid of one of them? Or even getting rid of both of them for 2 other better players? And the same for Wilshere, he has never been 'excellent' for Arsenal, just had some periods here and there where he performed good, he's never been a world beater or anything close to world class, and if he wasn't English nearly every Arsenal fan in England would want his ass shipped off.
I never said Arteta and Flamini were excellent players, indeed I never mentioned Flamini at all. I definitely didn't act (or at least didn't mean to) like there aren't better options out there, IMO Scheiderlein would have been a perfect fit. I agree that we should have bought a DM in the summer, I indicated in the above that I wasn't talking about the DM but the rest of the midfield positions. All I was pointing out was that we had in midfield we have Santi, Ozil, Sanchez, Ramsey, Oxo, Wilshere, Rosicky, Arteta which is a pretty strong number/standard of midfielders - so if you were going to bring in another player you'd need to sell one. Not just buy additional players in case we experience an injury crisis like we are doing, as 1. you would sign many great players willing to sit on the bench (or maybe even in the stands) waiting for an injury crisis before getting a chance, or if they do displace players, then those players would want out/cause disharmony, leaving us in the same situation.
We were never going to stop them scoring while we played a patched up defence and midfield. And it was highly unlikely we'd be able to hit them on the counter enough to cause damage/score enough goals with Giroud upfront instead of Theo, from a speed perspective more than anything.
I was thinking we needed Sanchez ay his very best to win this game. But he actually had a very poor game. Ozil was probably our best outfield player again.
See, the massive issue I have with posts like this is that there is too much hyperbole involved. In the Walcott and Chamberlain thread I created several days ago, I was criticising the manager for both his transfer policy and the fact that we, as a club, have failed to identify the underlying causes of why our team get more injuries than any other side. People were (to paraphrase) saying that I was insane for saying what I did about AW because we were joint top of the league at that moment (whilst conveniently ignoring we are bottom of our CL group and out of a domestic cup competition). It's a classic case of short termism because we've been in this situation before where we're doing well in the league, but then injuries/lack of signings significantly impact our season in the long term. I know this wasn't directed at me, but claiming that we need to introduce more players into our team does NOT mean we need 4 excellent reserve players for every position and I got annoyed on that thread because people were presenting a parody of my views, rather than what I was actually saying. Asking for 2-3 more players into our squad, whilst disposing of Flamini and Arteta from our playing staff (for example) is not at all unreasonable. Considering some of the players that are out with injury already have had a career plagued with sustaining long-term fitness problems, it was naive to rely on them to stay fit for the rest of this campaign and our manager deserves criticism for that. Frankly, I was/am amazed that so many of you on here disagreed with me on this because, to me, it seemed like a fairly straightforward thing to do.
And if I'm going to be brutally honest, without wanting to namedrop, I am going to criticise some of you lot on here because some of you really do get too caught up in our good form in the present without thinking about how the state of our squad is in the long-haul and how it will cope over the 50+ games we play each season. Regardless of whether the team is in good form or in bad form, this should not prevent us from expressing concern with the shortcomings of the squad and the club. Evidence from the previous 10 years would show that when we have been tipped to compete for the title, we crumble for a number of reasons; be it injuries, lack of depth, tactical naivety, fatigue, whatever. And because it has happened so often, that is why some on here - like myself - are uncertain about our ability to surmount a title challenge. One final thing - just because we may get a good result when the squad is depleted, it does not necessarily mean the manager has been proven right over his transfer policy and decision making.
Conceding early killed the game. Shame as we had looked decent up until then. Have to fault Gabriel for that one as everyone had pushed up while he didn't. If Kos hadn't been left on the bench as a precaution I'd argue that he'd be more in sync with the defense and wouldn't make that mistake. Once we were in a position where we needed to score Bayern sprung their traps. Not too worried as we generally looked decent everytime we got the ball in their half but we just had it so rarely it was Bayern having a field day with it 90% of the time.
I don't see what is ridiculous in saying that it would be difficult to bring in a very, very good RB when we already have a French International and an up and coming teenager who is already and English international competing with arguably one of the top 5 teenage RB's in the world. Fair enough if you want to buy him and sell Debuchy, but not many people - certainly not me, saw how poorly he would perform this season, indeed there were lots of posts on this forum arguing that he should still be first choice ahead of Bellerin, before the season started. So we can hardly damn Wenger for not selling him and replacing. Again not sure why people are using Flamini/Arteta against me, as I've already said I believe at least one of them should be sold and we should have bought a better DM. We have Theo, Oxo, Ramsey, Wilshere, rosicky who can all play RAM but people are saying it is negligent to have not bought a 6th very good player to play RAM in case of injuries, like the ones we are experiencing now. The simple point I'm making is that if we'd bought somebody and all 6 players were happy competing for places, and some were happy not getting near the match day squad when everyone is fit, then what if the injury crisis had hit another position - say LB. Would you be saying it's negligent that we didn't buy another few players that could play in that position? Injuries and injuries crisis' can happen anywhere/anytime and can't be anticipated (though with Arsenal, we know they will happen, but we don't know if it's right midfield, striker, centre back, rb or even goalkeeper that's going to be hit!). The injuries are the real issue here, and one we need to get to the bottom of, because, as everyone is saying, they keep derailing our seasons again and again
I don't see what is ridiculous in saying that it would be difficult to bring in a very, very good RB when we already have a French International and an up and coming teenager who is already and English international competing with arguably one of the top 5 teenage RB's in the world. Fair enough if you want to buy him and sell Debuchy, but not many people - certainly not me, saw how poorly he would perform this season, indeed there were lots of posts on this forum arguing that he should still be first choice ahead of Bellerin, before the season started. So we can hardly damn Wenger for not selling him and replacing. Again not sure why people are using Flamini/Arteta against me, as I've already said I believe at least one of them should be sold and we should have bought a better DM. We have Theo, Oxo, Ramsey, Wilshere, rosicky who can all play RAM but people are saying it is negligent to have not bought a 6th very good player to play RAM in case of injuries, like the ones we are experiencing now. The simple point I'm making is that if we'd bought somebody and all 6 players were happy competing for places, and some were happy not getting near the match day squad when everyone is fit, then what if the injury crisis had hit another position - say LB. Would you be saying it's negligent that we didn't buy another few players that could play in that position? Injuries and injuries crisis' can happen anywhere/anytime and can't be anticipated (though with Arsenal, we know they will happen, but we don't know if it's right midfield, striker, centre back, rb or even goalkeeper that's going to be hit!). The injuries are the real issue here, and one we need to get to the bottom of, because, as everyone is saying, they keep derailing our seasons again and again
--------------------Cech--------------------- Bellerin---Merts----Koscielny--Monreal ------------Carzorla----Coquelin----------- -----------------------Ozil---------------------- Ramsey----------Walcott--------Sanchez --------------------Ospina--------------------- Debauchy---Gabriel---Chambers--Gibbs ------------Flamini-----Rosicky--------------- --------------------Wilshere-------------------- Wellbeck--------Giroud-------Chamberlain 2x11's with an international in every position(except Bellerin- but thats only a matter of time). This is without including Arteta, Gnabry, Jenkinson and Sczezney. In BOLD are all our current injuries. I still maintain that our injuries are a far bigger problem than depth. You can have a 45 man squad -if you can't keep them fit its not going to matter.
Very true, especially the bit about a 45 man squad, but you can play the exact same back 5 for almost every game like Chelsea did last season, if you can keep them fit then it doesn't matter how good the reserves are...
That entire 3 midfield you named, in our second team, I would wager they would not get us top 4 if we had to rely on them for a sustained period, heck, they'd all be out injured after 3-5 games anyway. And we go back to the same point, are you telling me we could not find a better option than Flamini!!!!! Can we not find another young player to take over from Rosicky, who with all due respect, despite being a great player, doesn't have the body to cope with top level football? And then Wilshere, I stand by my point, he is vastly overrated. He has never proven himself to be consistently world class, and please for the love of God don't bring that Barcelona game from 5 YEARS AGO! ****s sake we still had Bendtner and Arshavin back then, with the latter even scoring in that game. It's like every time someone wants to defend Jack, it's 'oh remember how he dominated that midfield against Barca', yeah and so what? One good game against a top team, you can point to a million players who've done that. And this whole thing about oh they're internationals, excuse my French, but who gives a ****? I don't get this argument oh we have all these 'internationals' so therefore ergo we have good back up.....Monreal is super top quality, and he isn't part of Spain, nor is Bellerin, yet Gibbs is an international with England, and that's not a knock on Gibbs because he is a good player for us, but you get the point, being an international doesn't make you great. The same with Ospina, he is an international, and seems to do bloody well when he plays for country, but more recently when he comes in-between the sticks for us, he's like a prison inmate who just went to jail and entered the shower for the first time and keeps dropping the soap from being so nervous.
I'm not sure why you're speaking about the right-back position because that wasn't the position I was overly concerned with - nor was it what I mentioned in my post. As you've said, why do we need a very, very good right-back when we have Bellerin and Jenkinson (assuming he wants to stay)? I'm not going to say you didn't as I don't remember every post you made, however, I don't recall you expressing any sort of doubts or fears about our relative inactivity in the transfer market. I do find it somewhat irksome that people defend the manager and his transfer policies when we've had years to sort that position out properly. We haven't. But this isn't a rational assessment because you haven't taken into account the fitness histories of these players because if you did, you would know that most of those players you mention are not reliable. Apart from Oxlade-Chamberlain, Theo and more recently Ramsey, the other two cannot and do not play RAM. At least they have not for a long time. Ramsey should not even be RAM, he is only playing there because AW recognises the mistake he made in not acquiring a player better suited to the role and is trying to paper over the cracks with Ramsey's energy and stamina out wide. There's also the possibility of him trying to shoehorn him into the side. Spontaneous and infrequent injuries are one thing - the injuries our players get are something else entirely. In any case, the reasons for why I wanted to bring in a couple more players are multifaceted. This is an area where you and I do not differ. Where we differ is on the quality + depth of our squad and you happen to think it is far better than I do. Before the season started, there were players I wanted us to get rid of because I did not feel they were good enough and in return, I would have liked to have seen upgrades for said players that would have departed. It didn't happen and that partially explains why I'm not satisfied with the squad in its current manifestation. This is where you and I won't see eye-to-eye I don't think.
Well discussions aside, we are seeing and will continue to see, whether our squad is up for the task. So far it is creaking under the pressure and it's only November. But I will give them the benefit of doubt and see if the non-first teamers can provide suitable support. If they don't, then we will most likely not win the title, as injuries to our player will continue, and to some, more so.
You see I thoroughly disagree with that. In terms of our midfield. Ozil - Best no.10 in the league?(maybe in the World) Carzola - Has the best passing stats in Europe, Can beat players with his feet and can spot a pass. World Class. Coquelin - He's been great. A little workhorse. For me I think Wilshere is massively under-rated. The way he moves with the ball, his touch and all round ability. He gets a lot of stick because he hasn't yet realised his potential but for me he is a World Class talent. (and I'm not using the phrase lightly) I don't take the Wilshere haters seriously because for me its obvious he has a tremendous amount of quality. (on a side note: I don't know why its suddenly popular to proclaim any English player 'over-rated' these days. Even Rooney at 30 years old and almost 300 career goals to his name is still a victim of this.) Rosicky is a player who we continually claim to be 'over the hill'. However whenever he has come into the side he plays well. The guy literally never lets us down. Its good to have a few experienced veterans at the Club and i could see Rosicky going on for a couple more years.(fitness permitting) Flamini is just a utility/squad player. He's not top class but would not look out of place starting for the likes of Spurs/Everton/Swansea. In other words he's a decent little player. - Personally though I would like us to upgrade in this area. Arteta - Is he over the hill?.. or is he just struggling with form after some bad injuries? 2 x Seasons ago he had the best passing stats in Europe. He hasn't suddenly turned into a terrible player. Chamberlain - Inconsistent but talented. He's strong, quick and skilfull. Still young enough to evolve into a Top class player. Again a useful player to have in your side as he can play anywhere in midfield. Crowley, Reine-Adelaid and Zelalem - all exciting young midfielders and all will need game time to push on to the next level. Arsenal fans have a habit of bashing our players when they are struggling with fitness or form. Ramsey, Walcott and Koscielny are all recent examples of this. There's a lot of quality there.
Cazorla is not world class, he is class in the PL, but has been found out in the CL. Wilshere's biggest problem are the injuries he picks up every season and sooner or later the club has to make a decision on him, one thing is for sure we simply can't count on him going into a season. Rosicky is now back to the bad old days where he misses months after months with 'injuries' and Wenger does not even give clear return dates or even goes into much details about the type of injury Rosicky has picked up, his contract is ending at the end of the season and he needs to be let go. Flamini and Arteta are both not good enough, Flamini is hopeless and has even lost the discipline to play the posistion he is meant to play. Arteta is another injury prone player, but his legs have gone anyway. He was slow when he first came here and now he is even slower. Chamberlain has been poor this season, his end product is so bad at times and his lack of development this season has been very disappointing. So no our midfield is not that amazing. Ramsey,Cazorla,Ozil and Coquelin are the main four who you can trust to do the job and deliver when it matters the rest are either injury prone or over the hill.
What is it that people have seen Wilshere do to make them think he is a world class talent? If Wilshere is a world class talent then hundreds of midfielders must be world class talents. Skill = quite good. Passing = quite good. Tackling = mediocre. Injury proneness = very high. Finishing = not too bad. Is he that special? No. Guardiola got it right when he said Barca had 20 players like him at the academy. Over-hyped English player. And that statement doesn't mean he's a poor player. He's just not brilliant or top class.
I'm a strength and conditioning coach I know a World Class talent when I see one. Besides being technically excellent he has an efficiency/ease of movement that you only really see in the elite players. Much like Ramsey did Wilshere needs a sustained run of games. Give him games and he will develop into a World Class player. (that's if our medical/coaching staff don't ruin him)
