You'd have thought so but this happens week in week out. I'm not saying that a mis-timed tackle won't sometimes deserve a booking if it is really late but how often do you see referees ignore the shirt pulls or the blocking of a runner or some such thought out offence? If it happens at a corner then the answer is virtually all the time.
If I think we've played really poorly, regardless of the result, I'm going to say so, especially after the Leicester game. And I will have a go at players who get sent off, because 90% of the time they're stupid and avoidable. The exceptions to this are when referees make a mistake or ones like Morgan's red against Chelsea last season, where he took one for the team. And just because I haven't played the game, it doesn't mean I know less about it than people who have. I've seen more than enough, either through watching as a Saints fan, or refereeing, to make accurate judgements on yellow cards and whether they are pointless or whether they are "taking one for the team", As a referee, I can see how quick the game can be and it doesn't take much to misjudge a tackle. I thought, having watched MOTD2, in Vic's case there was no need to go to ground for either tackle.
What qualifies "taking one for the team"??? Morgan's second yellow against Chelsea was a long way from goal and although Chelsea were breaking, they were wider and a long way out. Vic made his foul on the edge of the box as a player was yards from a scoring opportunity. He had a defender behind him, but how can you say Morgan took one for the team and Vic didn't. At the moment of both those fouls, there was more danger of an immediate goal before Vic's foul. That is just you favouring one incident over another. Any player will tell you that a ball on the edge of our area is an imminent danger. "Taking one for a team" is cynical and possibly worse than a player trying to win a tackle defending a goal. Just opinions. Saying "taking one for the team" is just a media phrase you have latched on to. I would suggest that Morgan's was equally as poor a decision as Vic's. It is an opinion Tom about the tackles, however this is not the whole point of my comments all through this thread towards you; you have missed these completely. It is the OTT dramatic response you have. The black or white view which doesn't match up to what happens in a sport. You yourself say it doesn't take much to misjudge something. Even your last reply ignores that very point I make in one sentence. No-one has said we were good second half. You are the only one who has effed and jeffed about it. *Point of interest - your comment about watching as a fan and as a referee is completely irrelevant. I could argue that as a referee you may never have fully experienced the pace of football properly. I could say I can see those things just as much as another fan or even better as an ex-player, but I won't.... and as you say, if "it doesn't take much to misjudge a tackle," how can it be stupid and avoidable? If it doesn't take much, that suggests it could be unlucky or just mis-timed. PS. watch the Disney video.
If vic didint make that tackle(foul) and the player went on to score everyone on here would be angry because he didint make the tackle no?
Exactly. Now someone will say but Maya would have tackled him. The word they should use is "might". Even then, most people have said Vic should have been more careful, but Tom seems to want this black and white and to make Vic the villain who should be hung, drawn and quartered. The simple truth is, he had a player running at our goal unchallenged on the edge of the box. He tried to stop him (which is his job) and got the attempt or timing wrong. He gave a foul away and got sent off. FFS someone shoot him, even though it didn't cost us.
Vic didn't boot a player into the stands on a whim...he mistimed a tackle. He didn't do this after assessing the situation from all angles and putting it through computer analysis...he made a split second decision, running at full pelt whilst playing in a team under constant attack. Would have been msecs between being carded and a timely tackle. Time for a shrug and move on....no one died.
I've been critical of Vic in the past, but watching Sunderland the game before gave me some perspective. I'm glad he's a player who commits and make tackles, and not a player like Lee Cattermole, who just backs off, waiting for someone else to take responsibility.
Agree that Alan Green is an excellent radio commentator so not sure why they've started having him on Match of the Day this season. Radio and TV commentary require completely different skills and it really doesn't work with him as a TV commentator.
Well I don't think I've been OTT at all. I've said we were terrible in the 2nd half, which surely can't be disputed. I've called Wanyama a bloody idiot for getting himself sent off which I still believe. Making one rash challenge is careless but making 2 in the same game is stupid. You can't dive in like that on a yellow card, you've got to trust the defence behind you to do their job and we also had a 2 goal lead at the time. We were drawing with Chelsea, and we were under so much pressure when Morgan got sent off and Morgan brought down Fabregas I think? Wanyama brought down Tomlin. Slight difference in quality between the two players. If Fabregas had got away we were in trouble. Tomlin could easily have belted it into row Z.
Exactly what I was thinking. I'd bet the defensive couches drum it into the players, don't assume someone else will make the tackle. If you have the chance, go for it.
If it was 1-0 yes but it was 2-0. And the player was Lee Tomlin not Alexis Sanchez. I doubt he would have scored.
I think we all expect a player like Vic to pick up a fair few cards over the course of a season, given his role in the team. He made two sloppy tackles on Sunday though, to get himself sent off, and I think it's perfectly legitimate to criticise him for that. If we're criticising our forwards for failing to hold the ball up, then we can criticise our holding midfielder for sliding in like a rusty tractor in a ploughed field. Incidentally, I think the time to be most critical is after a good result, rather than a bad one when it's often best to be positive in the face of adversity. And that was a woeful second half from Saints on Sunday. That's the last time I'm going to say that, but I think it does need to be recognised.
I'm a bit torn on this one Tom - on one hand I do absolutely support what you're saying (and think people are being a little too critical of your points in all honesty), but you do tend to slip into absolutes with the language you use which trips you up a bit. Then on the other hand you make statements like this and my eyes roll a bit - you can't, as Fran says, expect Vic to act like a computer and think to himself about Lee Tomlin's scoring record before committing to a tackle that he clearly thought he could win fairly. I suspect it's more a case of "danger - must stop it" rather than Terminator-style "Ah Lee Tomlin. Well he's not Alexis Sanchez. In fact, in four games he's not scored for Bournemouth, despite a reasonable scoring record at Peterborough". If he was doing that, Tomlin or anyone would have all the time he wanted to waltz around our defence! It was a split second mistake. It happens.
No I got it. Your glad Wanyama went for the tackle. But as a result he's suspended for Sunderland leaving a Vic sized hole we now need to fill.
If it was a two footed lunge in the middle of the park, flying through the air like a lunatic, yeah we'd all agree I'm sure. It was an honest mistake though when we were under pressure and he sensed danger. It's his job to try and stop that. A mistimed tackle. That stuff happens. It's like a postman delivering a letter for you into the next door neighbours. He didn't open the letter and read it. *RUBBISH METAPHOR KLAXON*
