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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    You too can experience being Dr Evil...<laugh>
     
    #861
  2. GoldhawkRoad

    GoldhawkRoad Well-Known Member

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    Germany is reining back hard on immigration following Merkel's open invitation. The big fear over there is that they will become like Sweden which is suffering big time from an open-doors policy and is now experiencing problems. The article below is written by a journalist from Canada's most widely distributed newspaper and makes interesting reading. There are some uncomfortable statistics, particularly with regard to child learning abilities among immigrants and crime. The former could, I think, be explained away by difficulties with the language in first generation kids:


    Sweden’s ugly immigration problem

    Margaret Wente

    The Globe and Mail

    Published Friday, Sep. 11, 2015 5:00PM EDT


    In Europe, refugees from Syria and Iraq have been cramming the ferry-trains heading from Germany to Denmark. But once in Denmark, many refused to get off. Where they really want to go is Sweden, where refugee policies are more generous. When the Danes said no, they hopped off the trains, and began heading toward the Swedish border by taxi, bus, and foot.

    Sweden has the most welcoming asylum policies and most generous welfare programs in the European Union. One typical refugee, Natanael Haile, barely escaped drowning in the Mediterranean in 2013. But the folks back home in Eritrea don’t want to know about the perils of his journey. As he told The New York Times, they want to know about “his secondhand car, the government allowances he receives and his plans to find work as a welder once he finishes a two year language course.” As a registered refugee, he receives a monthly living allowance of more than $700 (U.S.).

    Sweden’s generous immigration policies are essential to the image of a country that (like Canada) prides itself as a moral superpower. For the past 40 years, most of Sweden’s immigration has involved refugees and family reunification, so much so that the words “immigrant” and “refugee” are synonymous there (unlike in Canada).

    Sweden takes in more refugees per capita than any other European country, and immigrants – mainly from the Middle East and Africa – now make up about 16 per cent of the population. The main political parties, as well as the mainstream media, support the status quo. Questioning the consensus is regarded as xenophobic and hateful. Now all of Europe is being urged to be as generous as Sweden.

    So how are things working out in the most immigration-friendly country on the planet?

    Not so well, says Tino Sanandaji. Mr. Sanandaji is himself an immigrant, a Kurdish-Swedish economist who was born in Iran and moved to Sweden when he was 10. He has a doctorate in economics from the University of Chicago and specializes in immigration issues. This week I spoke with him by Skype.

    “There has been a lack of integration among non-European refugees,” he told me. Forty-eight per cent of immigrants of working age don’t work, he said. Even after 15 years in Sweden, their employment rates reach only about 60 per cent. Sweden has the biggest employment gap in Europe between natives and non-natives.

    In Sweden, where equality is revered, inequality is now entrenched. Forty-two per cent of the long-term unemployed are immigrants, Mr. Sanandaji said. Fifty-eight per cent of welfare payments go to immigrants. Forty-five per cent of children with low test scores are immigrants. Immigrants on average earn less than 40 per cent of Swedes. The majority of people charged with murder, rape and robbery are either first- or second-generation immigrants. “Since the 1980s, Sweden has had the largest increase in inequality of any country in the OECD,” Mr. Sanandaji said.

    It’s not for lack of trying. Sweden is tops in Europe for its immigration efforts. Nor is it the newcomers’ fault. Sweden’s labour market is highly skills-intensive, and even low-skilled Swedes can’t get work. “So what chance is there for a 40-year-old woman from Africa?” Mr. Sandaji wondered.

    Sweden’s fantasy is that if you socialize the children of immigrants and refugees correctly, they’ll grow up to be just like native Swedes. But it hasn’t worked out that way. Much of the second generation lives in nice Swedish welfare ghettos. The social strains – white flight, a general decline in trust – are growing worse. The immigrant-heavy city of Malmo, just across the bridge from Denmark, is an economic and social basket case.

    Sweden’s generosity costs a fortune, at a time when economic growth is stagnant. The country now spends about $4-billion a year on settling new refugees – up from $1-billion a few years ago, Mr. Sanandaji said. And they keep coming. Sweden automatically accepts unaccompanied minors. “We used to take in 500 unaccompanied minors a year,” he said. “This year we are expecting 12,000.”

    Yet Sweden’s acute immigration problems scarcely feature in the mainstream media. Journalists see their mission as stopping racism, so they don’t report the bad news. Despite – or perhaps because of – this self-censorship, the gap between the opinion elites and the voters on immigration issues is now a chasm. According to a recent opinion poll, 58 per cent of Swedes believe there is too much immigration, Mr. Sanandaji noted. The anti-immigration Sweden Democrats party is now polling at between 20 per cent and 25 per cent.

    Sweden is a cautionary tale for anyone who believes that Europe is capable of assimilating the hundreds of thousands of refugees and migrants who are besieging the continent, or the millions more who are desperately poised to follow in their wake. The argument that these people are vital to boost the economy – that they will magically create economic growth and bail the Europeans out of their demographic decline – is a fantasy.

    It’s really very simple, Mr. Sanandaji explained. You can’t combine open borders with a welfare state. “If you’re offering generous welfare benefits to every citizen, and anyone can come and use these benefits, then a very large number of people will try to do that. And it’s just mathematically impossible for a small country like Sweden to fund those benefits.”

    Things will get worse before they get better. As Judy Dempsey, a senior analyst at a Berlin think tank, told The Wall Street Journal, “Europe hasn’t seen anything yet in terms of the numbers or the backlash.”

    Meanwhile, Sweden’s neighbour, Denmark, has cut the benefits for refugees in half, and has taken out ads in Lebanese newspapers warning would-be migrants to stay home. The Danes don’t want to be a moral superpower. They can’t afford it.
     
    #862
  3. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    So we will be alright then, seeing as we are getting rid of the welfare state. Phew.
     
    #863
  4. GoldhawkRoad

    GoldhawkRoad Well-Known Member

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    Yep, tell those camped in Calais that they won't get tax credits and they'll make the long trek home

    The article is interesting, since for the best of reasons, liberal Sweden has undertaken high immigration which is affecting the balance of its population. It's probably transitional but the transition could last more than one generation
     
    #864
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
  5. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Let the people in Calais know about sweden
     
    #865
  6. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    #866
  7. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Just read in the paper that 1 in 1,000 people in England and Wales is a convicted sex offender. That's nearly 60,000 people. Given that this is probably just the tip of the iceberg i.e. those who have been caught, where victims have come forward, I find it unutterably depressing. The proportions may have been the same throughout history but how do so many people get so ****ed up?

    Awaiting the charge of the 'she was asking for it' brigade.

    In other news, Michael Froman most senior trade official at the US Treasury, has said that the US is 'not in the market' for trade agreements with individual nations, and yes he was talking to the UK. So that's one not insignificant country we can cross off the list of complex and time consuming treaties we will negotiate after we leave the EU. Also the national credit rating will be downgraded if we leave, according to the unaccountable crooks at Standard and Poor, meaning the cost of Govt borrowing rises.

    The rate of male middle aged suicide in Britain has risen by 40% since the recession of 2008.
     
    #867
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  8. TimPR78

    TimPR78 Well-Known Member

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    Won't get any victim blaming here, the only thing is the term convicted sex offender is a large one think this includes 16 year olds that have had sex with their 15 year old girlfriends and anyone caught paying for it as well as other lesser offenses, I'm not condoning either but a mile away from the peedo and the rapist which spring to mind when you hear that term
     
    #868
  9. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you are right Tim, but it's still a big number.
     
    #869
  10. TimPR78

    TimPR78 Well-Known Member

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    Can't disagree there, and in the respect of decency (as it is an important issue) I will not make a Ched Evans joke, however much the 'bad' Tim wants to!!!!
     
    #870

  11. GoldhawkRoad

    GoldhawkRoad Well-Known Member

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    Same old Obama administration playing games to suit the USA's own national interests. Obama tried it earlier in the year and now it's his minions. The US finds the UK as a convenient entree into the EU. We're the proverbial bridge. Americans would prefer to deal with fellow Anglo-Saxons than the French or the Germans that have different mindsets. The UK is more likely to press for reforms in the EU of which Obama approves.

    I suggest viewing Obama's threats with cynicism. It's a form of blackmail. It might worry the Nick Cleggs of the world, but if the United Kingdom left the EU and, as the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world, took back its independence, I guarantee the USA will not be announcing that the "special relationship" is dead.

    Per John Redwood:

    “If letting foreign countries impose laws on you, levy taxes on you, and spend your money is such a good idea why doesn’t Obama create an American Union so Mexico can have common borders with the US, Cuba can spend US tax on herself, and Brazil can impose laws on the US the US does not want
    If Obama did that to the US, and it worked, then he would be in a stronger moral position to lecture us on having common borders with Eastern Europe, having Greece spending our money and having laws the Germans want but we don’t.”
     
    #871
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  12. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    please log in to view this image


    After laying a wreath at the Cenotaph, Jeremy Corbyn remained on Horseguards parade, among the crowd, to applaud the veterans' march past. Cameron and the rest had buggered off.

    Didn't see this in any of the newspapers, just some bollocks about him not bowing low enough when he laid his wreath.
     
    #872
    QPR Oslo, Deleted 1 and Sooperhoop like this.
  13. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    Not in the Mirror or the Grauniad?...
     
    #873
  14. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Not as far as I know. I saw it on Facebook.
     
    #874
  15. GoldhawkRoad

    GoldhawkRoad Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't entitled "CND march in Edinburgh" was it, Strolls? :emoticon-0105-wink:

    Seriously though, I agree all the business about nodding was bollocks. The guy did what was expected of him. But then, the criticism was in a red top, The Sun - enough said
     
    #875
  16. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    #876
  17. GoldhawkRoad

    GoldhawkRoad Well-Known Member

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    Cheap political shot - Sir Gerald, whoever he is, looks a mean bastard judging by the photo of him
     
    #877
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  18. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Politicisation of what should be a simple act of remembrance for war dead and wounded, military and civilian, is increasing and of course devaluing the whole thing. Plus the media making a weekend of it, or more accurately a month of it, just bores people. Especially the BBC (preaching to the converted here). My wife pointed out that they were wearing poppies on their dance kit during rehearsals for Strictly.
     
    #878
    GoldhawkRoad likes this.
  19. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    please log in to view this image
     
    #879
  20. durbar2003

    durbar2003 Well-Known Member

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    The guy will kill the Labour Party.
     
    #880

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