We have a few raging debates on here about referees, but surely we have never seen anything like the fiasco over the penalty-that-never-was in the egg ball game following Scotland's defeat. Mistakes and refereeing go together like gin and tonic (?!). I have been known to vent my spleen about refs over the years. We've all seen last minute penalties "wrongly" awarded and for that matter poor calls on corners or free kicks that lead to heartbreaking goals. As fans we come away and curse the ref, and that's part of the game. But if the FA were to start saying that the ref got it wrong would only inflame things. I know that they rescind red cards, and this is a bit odd but ultimately may be seen as righting an injustice against a player. But to come out and say the referee gave a wrong decision when the rules say he can't refer the decision is a disgrace. This isn't a bunch of sofa sitting pundits viewing things from all angles condemning the ref - it's his own ruling body. Coming hard on the heels of Jose being fined and banned by the FA for criticising referees the timing is immaculate! When I ran youth teams, I always reminded them that without the ref they couldn't play. I wouldn't have been a referee for a gold clock, but I'm glad that young men and women who love the game choose to follow that path. It's hard to take, but refs give what they see. That what they see is influenced by the reaction of players and the crowd is taken as read. As I said to my missus this morning, we'll only get a penalty on Sunday if Clyne actually shoots Mane. We know that refs are swayed by home crowds and the histrionics of players. That's how it is. Referees do a tough job as honestly as they can. They make mistakes. To publicly pillory a referee is to make it less likely that good people will continue to choose this route to be engaged in sport.
Good post Lambo . I've never refereed but have umpired and its hard not to be affected by loud appeals. You do doubt what you think you saw. you have to make an instant decision and can only try your best to make an honest call. I certainly don't envy PL refs!
As a referee I know from experience you generally know when you've got a decision wrong but you've got to stick to the decision you've made. You can't just change your mind - it shows the players you can be easily swayed and that's the very last thing a referee needs. I felt sorry for Joubert on Sunday as he couldn't go to the TMO as rules didn't allow it but got annihilated for it anyway. It was just unfortunate his call came in a the last minute of a very close and vital match.
Thought we might hear from you, Tom! Is any match vital? No match is so important that the ref should invite public humiliation from the governing body, especially given the same body had tied his hands on referral. I have been appalled at decisions and injustices, but have never thought a ref was doing any less than his best, even if his best was pretty poor.
I don`t blame the ref for making a mistake - we all do. But if he wasn`t sure, then he shouldn`t have given it. Then he made the wrong decision in awarding the penalty rather than a scrum. And he missed a clear late tackle on Hogg just prior to the `penalty`. And he clearly got the sin-binning of Maitland wrong too. Then he ran off without having the courtesy to shake the players hands. Bad day at the office !
Sorry Tom,I think you are saying I know I got the decision wrong but I'm still going to send you off for it. Well I'm damn glad the refs in my day (over30yrs) had more balls. I believe you'd get more respect if you thought about it and got it right.
It's easy to say that but when you're out on the pitch refereeing you have to make a quick decision. And by the way, the ones I think I may have got wrong are the free kicks in the middle of the pitch or outside the box. When it comes to penalties and potential red card situations I take longer to make a decision to give myself the best chance of getting it right, and if I'm not 100% sure, I don't give anything.
With Tom on this one...you cannot let players sway you if you've given the decision or they'd never stop. If you haven't yet raised the card, you can change your mind because no one would ever know. You can however use your linesman...pretend to consult him and then change your mind.
We clearly need more women refs; females are brilliant at changing their minds and holding someone else responsible.
And getting out of awkward situations. And I bet refs have used linesmen to confirm decisions or to change their minds....they just pretend to discuss it.
Hate pedantry but ... we'd have won 2-1 because the ref would either not have wrongly given Germany a free kick or would have spotted the handball that followed!
I never saw the Aussie v Scots incident, nor the decision, so I have no opinion other than what happened in the aftermath. It can't be quantified how much the referee brought attention on himself by sprinting off the pitch after he made his last minute decision. I also think attention was drawn by the Radio 5 Live commentators who bawled out on air their opinion that the referee knew he'd made the wrong decision. That can't be quantified either, but it magnifies to the whole thing. If you'd like to listen to the Radio 5 commentary here's the page. Click on Live Coverage and look for the match: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/rugby-union/33722111 Start at around 1hr 42minutes. Quite interesting emotions.
Thanks, Lambo - a very good post. I was as incensed as any neutral (Aussie hater) could be for the decision, but it's done. It was unfortunate that it was in the last minute and affected the game, but done is done. For World Rugby to now turn round and say "Joubert was wrong" is inexcusable. Their rules didn't allow him to refer it to the TMO and he had to make the decision. It went forward off a Scottish player and the Scot in front picked it up. Strictly speaking, under the rules of the game, that's offside and a penalty. If it had been 40 yards further down the pitch no-one would have complained. Joubert had to make an immediate decision and he did. Now he's been hung out to dry and I wouldn't be surprised if he resigns and stops refereeing which would be a tragedy. I'm no fan of his - I think he gives the Southern Hemisphere teams far too much leeway by playing "S. Hemi rules" but he's a ref and he's done a good job in many of his games. To be pilloried by this and now let down by World Rugby is terrible and I feel for him.
I heard that someone threw a bottle at him and that's why he sprinted off - can't actually blame him for that!!
I'm not trying to justify anything, but (from the commentary), what was thrown was a plastic beer glass. This doesn't mean that it wouldn't have been followed by a barrage of tins and bottles, but one plastic glass on its own should not have scared the ref into running off the pitch.
Fair enough - but he IS South African, so he may have been expecting a lot worse .........................
Yes, and usually reliable reporters said he sprinted off so fast Usain Bolt would have been proud. In fact, Youtube evidence shows he just trotted. It's amazing how even the professionals get things wrong. ALL professionals.
