Thing is, what St Badger was saying is that none of it was a dive. The treading on Mane's foot was just part of the foul. By Ramires keeping his foot there, Mane had nowhere else to run but into Ramires outstretched leg. He then pulled back his leg after contact, and Ramires got off his foot. He was starting to go down but he tried to get over Ramires still outstretched leg, hence the theatrical fall. Mane may well have a bit of a reputation, but in this case I believe the Ref got it wrong. By the way, Mane wasn't tripped, so the "boffins" need to do another study on players who have their foot stamped on so it can't move and the other leg striding into the opposition player.
I'm not denying the ref got it wrong but despite your's and St Badgers protestations I still believe Mane 'exaggerated' his fall. He probably would have gone down without his own input and that might have got more sympathy from the ref. Clearly though, as you say, his reputation isn't helping, hence the booking for the next foul that wasn't!
I've used VLC on the Footballorgin match file to run that moment in frame by frame motion. Try it. It's fun. Slowed right down you can see that Mane doesn't really do anything wrong at all and it's his momentum which carries him over Ramires' leg. And Ramires gets away with it. Incidentally, moments later Mane gets booked and he certainly doesn't dive there either. So the Ref got both decisions wrong. Luckily for us, he got the Falcao one right [VLC shows that plainly if anyone is in doubt].
The problem is, no one can deny that Mane dives all the time, therefore he (and us) are gonna suffer from it as refs will be reluctant to give anything to him unless it's absolutely clear cut. Same thing happened with Bale/Suarez etc.
There was no doubt in the minds of all of the pundits and Referee assessors after the game that it should have been a penalty, but they have the benefit of replays, the Referee on the spot has to make an instant decision, if he get's it wrong so be it, it won't make a jot of diffference in the long run, can't be reversed in any way. Future Referees will just have to try harder to get it right, no pressure then?
I think Mane confuses people because he is strong,but very light and very fast. Fast, agile players that are light are going to go down 'easily' when there is minimal contact below the knee. There's nothing they can do about it. They are travelling at speed and light. My presumption may be wrong, but I feel like because he is strong shoulder to shoulder people think he souldn't go down that easily when he's caught by challenge below the waist. For example.. very late in the game he out-powered Cahill and made a mockery of him. Tadic should probably have scored from the pass Mane played immediately after. I think it was Terry who made a good block. It's completely different when the player is getting caught or tripped, especially for a fast player of a light bodyweight. I think it's completely unfair to call him a diver. It's difficult to make a comparison with another player as usually players that are light, like to dribble and have pace to burn are really weak shoulder to shoulder. The penalty shout was an absolute stonewall penalty. Clear as day.
Well I deny it. He doesn't dive all the time. He has been known to dive, but I think he does it far less than people believe.
A dive is when you go down without being fouled, the only thing Sadio is being penalised for, is a bit of overacting after he has been fouled, the foul is still a foul, there is a subtle difference.
http://www.leaguemanagers.com/news/lma-latest/lg-performance-week-koemans-saints-win-bridge/ League managers Association vote our win over Chelsea as performance of week...Ron to get his 1st trophy of season. Expect he'll send us a tweet of it on his shelf soon.
Yep, for the penalty, he decided to go down because he was in the area. That's why it looker exaggerated. Just before he slipped that through ball to Bertrand he was fouled in the middle of the park, but stayed on his feet because there was no real advantage in going down. It's frustrating for everyone because if you don't go down a ref will never give a pen.
Refs will now be aware that he was denied a penalty and was booked when he was fouled...perhaps he will now get the benefit of the doubt. If he is denied decisions because of his reputation (as some claim)...he now has a new reputation...including the fact that he is a gentleman and won't give you lip.
I don't agree. He's being penalised for overacting to contact. Not all contact is a foul, despite what some of the professionals might say, he's not "entitled to go down" just because there was contact. It annoys the hell out of me when Hazard or Corzola do it so Sadio is no better in my eyes.
Jamie Redknapp called the penalty incident correctly, saying that the ref saw it, raised his arm to blow for the foul, but decided to change his mind. Personally, I think it was a case of the ref bottling it, because of Mourinho, and what he would have said, although it didn't stop him mouthing off. At half time, I said to my son that the ref, after being told he'd missed two nailed on penalties, would either give us a soft one, or deny Chelsea one, second half, to try and make up for it. I'm not convinced he got the Falcao call right, because he saw it as it was, but denied it to make up for what he'd missed first half. To have that decision vindicated, probably made him the most relieved man in the stadium. And yes I do believe some refs try to even things up, when they know they've made a major cock up.
Absolutely. I meant to cover that point in one of my posts, and you're absolutely right. He gets fouled, he gets up. Whether he gets the foul or not he walks away. There was a moment in the match where he had been fouled yet again, this time by Matić, and as the Referee approached he said a couple of things as if in ordinary conversation. I imagined it being something like... do you think you could have a little word with them ref.? Because in the 2nd half he was being knocked down almost every time there was an opposition player close enough to him to tackle. Thankfully, he was too quick for them most of the time.
I disagree, a dive/making the most of contact is the same thing, it's still trying to con the ref and Sadio does it multiple times every game, there's no getting away from that. I think some people refuse to see cos he plays for Saints, if Sadio played for another team then people on here would slate him like they do/did with Young, Bale, Suarez etc. This is nothing new though, people did it with Lallana when he used to do, the support he got after his dive against pompey in the championship was almost as embarrasing as the dive itself. Well with all due respect, I think that's your red and white glasses clouding your opinion. What this man said, spot on IOAG
I don't like 'he made contact and was entitled to go down' either, but I think he is little and nippy, so he will go down easier than say a Matt Le Tiss. Pure physics. Fast runners have both feet off the ground for longer than slower players...catch one and he will go down. For the 'penalty' his foot was trodden on and then his leg hit the player....where was he going to go if he couldn't fly? Lallana's was a blatant dive....big difference.
Just to clarify something here. Yes, sometimes Sadio goes down too easily (call that what you like) on contact or not contact. The Chelsea incidents - clear fouls.
Yeah just for me to clarify, I'm not saying he dived for the Chelsea ones. I'm saying he's a serial diver/foul exaggerator and refs have learnt this from last season so now he's not getting the benefit of the doubt as if it's theatrical, they'll think he's made most of it as he has form for that so less likely to get the decision given for him. Again I point to players like Young, off the top of my head I remember a stonewall pen he should of had last season at Sunderland, didn't get it most probably due to reputation. This is the only point I'm making, I'm not saying he dived against Chelsea, but to say he doesn't dive is wrong imo and just sticking up for a Saint while same people slate other players who dive.
I guess it is a long time since I played, but my memory of any time that I got up a bit of speed and got fouled I always went down like a sack of spuds, I never had time to think about play acting, my main reaction was to break the fall before I broke something else, it may have looked like a dive but I wasn't quick enough to think about doing one! I am no lightweight, so I guess I reacted differently to how a lightweight athlete would appear in the situation?
