OT: please sign if you care about freedom

https://www.change.org/p/warwick-st...the-university-of-warwick?recruiter=392326527

Many thanks

 

Already done. Remember when universities used to be a place of free thinking?

 

I reckon this will reach about 30 pages

 

Pandering to the racist minority for fear of offending the ****ing archaic gobshItes

 

I share the sentiment but you can't have it both ways I'm afraid. Freedom of speech should absolutely be the cornerstone of all further and higher education, but you can't just feel that way bcos you happen to agree with the views of the group being banned.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/feb/18/extremists-universities-freedom-of-speech

How many were signing a petition against these people being banned? https://www.indexoncensorship.org/2013/11/controversial-university-speakers/

 

That ought to do it

 

I've always been a defender of total free speech. I hate the idea that we police the idea you can incite people to violence.. You can't; it's thats persons choice to act rather than talk.

A free society lets the nutters speak so you know they're nutters....because if you don't you just start banning on the basis that some weak minded ****ers got offended.

Universities have become the most intolerant places to free speech which is ironic and very very sad..

 

Agree there, sadly the environment of fear is pretty real. Almost all of it manufactured. Remember Muslims have not just spontaneously decided to get offended. Add to that the further you go back the less we cared if anyone was offended, even by overt racism, yet the world was not under a clowd of terror fear from offended Muslims.

When I was growing up if there was a backpack on the bus you thought "oh some twat forgot his bag" now if that happens everyone ****s the bed.
There is no reason for this terror other than the media. It's very real fear too. A good motivator no doubt

Cameron talks of "banning ISIS videos" yet the BBC have given ISIL's "brand" more air time and page space than they give to Cameron

 

I really get where you are coming from re total free speech as its what I would always aspire to. However, i fall short when it comes to allowing somebody to be in the town centre with a loud hailer shouting all these ( insert group here) are taking our jobs/ benefit scroungers/ peadophiles/ going against the word of our Lord/ disgusting us with their ideas etc so lets go and " get them" .

It's always a fine line in these discussions but unfortunately we need a line somewhere. For me the incitement to violence/hatred is a useful line to draw but a couple of issues always make myself ( and many others) struggle if you just take that anti violence/hatred line. No doubt some people will have agreed with the OP on here or signed the petition yet when it comes to discussing very controversial issues such the age of sexual consent or the WW2 holocaust suddenly decide that actually we can't discuss that.

 

Think some on here are missing the point re free speech. I don't believe anyone should be allowed to incite hatred, but how, on God's Green Earth, she is 'inciting hatred' by relating her story of Islamic intolerance to women and people who want to leave the religion is beyond me. Like saying Hollocaust survivors are inciting hatred against the SS by telling their story.

 

They don't like the reality being aired and the uber PC University brigade have run away from any potential conflict over someone vocalising that reality. For shame, but no surprise like

 

Edit stupid phone
Nothing wrong with PC generally but as you say it is the uber PC ( I like that because they won't) yoghurt knitting militant veggies that are really against free speech. Some might say these stereotypes don't exist but I can only talk from personal experience and in my world they certainly do.

 

The entire PC premise is one I despise tbh mate.

It stifles honest discussions about a miriade of issue dues to people not wanting to be seen to transgress the unwritten PC rule book.

The uber offended who'll seek to find offence in the most innocent of comments is something I find completely unacceptable behaviour....".................come the revolution those ****s will be the first against the wall

 

Tell me how you incite hatred?

People with ginger hair are a menace to society please remove them to keep our children safe.

I'm fairly sure nobody , even if they agree on here is going to act on my words...(I'm ginger)

You can play on fear but then what's the difference between an elected govt doing that to go to war vs individual members of the society?

You can't eradicate ignorance by silencing it. You do it by education so that people just don't accept it without objectivity. Silence someone and they become romantic, you give them validity with the idea they're on to something.

TT, you used the example of the megaphone on the street guy. Silence him and he does it in a back room to people listening without an alternative view. Let him do it in public and then allow others to challenge him.

Other laws protect people from violence. Ie you hurt or discriminate against anyone it's against the law.

 

And DD, I didn't miss the point. My point was that it starts with banning an extremist view, then to look like your fair you ban the opposite view, so then what are you left with?

And that's what has happened in the case you've highlighted

 

Playing devil's advocate, can you see the comparison if the Holocaust survivor was inciting hatred against Germans collectively through inference rather than singling out SS?

 

And because of open society, justices prevailed and She is allowed to talk at the Uni..see? Doesn't need legislated, just needs common decency expressed openly...

 

Many years ago I used to think the same but have since realised once again again its about where you draw the line. Classic example, would you refer to somebody as a spastic? I will assume not, so why not? the term spasticity is a medical term and is still used for some conditions (i think) and at one time using the correct terminology eg cerebal palsy would leave you open to criticism of PC and medical nerdiness.

Yes there are those that take it too far eg brainstorming, those uber PC's who once claimed it offensive to use at all will now claim its offensive to object to it being used???? Did I miss the memo telling me of this change? Lunatics the fecking lot of therm but they are on the right road, just a long way in the wrong direction.

 

How to incite hatred? fear usually does it, how did the germans incite hatred against the jews, mccarthy against communism, muslims, immigrants, the church against.........well everything.

I do understand what you are saying about keeping it open but the problem is if it was that easy to dismiss these ideas they would have gone away a long time ago.

As for the law, it just doesn't feel right for it to be ok for somebody to tell others that the P.... in their street may well be a peado ( a common BNP tactic using recent cases) and a functionally illiterate family man to then be arrested, charged and imprisoned for beating the neighbours up.

It is just a feeling, no ethical, moral or legal definition but its all i have to go on.

 

I see where you're coming from TT. But..(My gut feeling)

The Nazi's are a bad example and often misused in this debate. Before they came to power they did exactly what the PC brigade have advocated and we've adopted. They removed all disseminating opinion. The left. Academics, the church. Anyone that could talk to the people and give an opposing view. THAT allowed them to work on the people largely unchallenged and instill the fear to go to war and eliminate the Jews..

On the other example it's about standing up as a normal person with the freedom to do it. We had a similar situation here. Typical free presbyterian nutters on the street during pride asking if 'you'd trust "this lot" with your children'....result? Normal bystanders stopped and started denouncing him....all in public...no controlled opinion..no censorship. This is a guy in a suit and tie, probably a teacher or bank manager and if not allowed would hide these view points....now we get to see he's a cock.