Tbh I think the straw that broke the proverbial back was RVN's attitude towards Ronaldo and, to a lesser extent, Rooney. SAF saw them as the future core of a successful team, whilst RVN saw them as players who should be there to serve him. The Carling Cup final, and before that buying Saha, was a symptom of the fact that SAF had lost faith with the ability of RVN to be part of a good team. That's one of the issues we had with Ruud - he did give us a massive lift at a time when we had quite a poor team and helped us win a couple of trophies. But as soon as we started to build a team which had the potential to win stuff his attitude started to sabotage the process. It's one of the main reasons I'm unconvinced we'd have had the same degree of success with him in the team from 07-11, even though he was patently superior to Saha, Tevez and Berbatov.
This is why it is so hard to categorise players into world class or not because the criteria is undefined and the partisan nature of football fans makes it hard to agree anyway. People can fairly say Henry and RVN were better than Drogba and it would be hard to argue against their goal scoring records. However Drogba was the ultimate big game player and if that isn't a measure of being world class what is? He wasn't as talented as Henry but his influence in matches was immense and often cited as 'unplayable' when on form. Again consistency is another consideration. Drogba had seasons like 2010 when he was undoubtedly world class but didn't perform at that level year in year out. Overall though, this is just a Fergie WUM. Selectively picking the players who brown nosed him and ignoring club legends he doesn't get on with now. I actually think Keane on top form was a far more important player to United than Giggs (though Giggs had a much longer career at the top).
I meant it was Ferguson's was of ensuring he was ushered out of the door. It was the straw that broke RVN's back, not the other way round. Ferguson had already fallen out with him as you say. I remember Ruud's look of disgust as Richardson was sent on. I mean, it was fairly ridiculous if truth be told as Richardson was never good enough to play for United. Saha and Rooney both justified their starts in that match by scoring so he can't really argue with that, he just no doubt, and with some justification in my opinion, thought he should have played some part in that match. It helped usher in a new dawn, no doubt at all. That Fergie later bought the inferior Berbatov to carry out the function Ruud did later on and a great cost is unfortunate but it's debatable whether RVN would have lasted that long injury wise anyway
My recollection is that Saha had played in the games to get us to the final so he got a starting place. RVN was pissed off about that and made his feelings clear during the game so Fergie never put him on the pitch. Didn't he storm off after the game and not celebrate with the team?
I think he did grudgingly celebrate, if you recall they had the 'for you smudger' or something like that T shirts on? I'm fairly sure he did too. Saha was in on merit but, even though it's not exactly a like for like substitution, I can see why he'd be pissed off that an impostor like Richardson got in the pitch and he didn't.
Whilst I'll agree that consistency was an issue for Drogba, he was unplayable on his day and at his peak one of the best forwards in the world - fitting the criteria for world class. It's funny that people would even mention his time early in his Chelsea career, it would be a bit like me mentioning how crap Giggs was at the end of his United career. Nobody is the best in the world for every single season of their career. Nobody is saying Drogba is up there with Henry or Van Nistelrooy, they are up there with the best forwards of all time. Just don't see how Drogba wasn't world class at his best.
If he's not up there with them then he isn't world class. World class means you are the best in the world in your position
@chelseafans Because we are discussing ruud and henry. Not drogba. When we start disuccing Andy Cole, we still won't be discussing drogba but by the time we've got down to discussing the great Diego Forlan....maybe then we can bring drogba into the equation
In his first stint at Chelsea Drogba played 226 league games. He scored 100 goals. A goal every 2.26 games. During the same period Rooney played 251 league games. He scored 129 goals. A goal ever 1.95 games. Obviously it should be mentioned that the stats are slightly skewed as Drogba always played as an out and out striker, Rooney often didn't. I don't think Rooney is world class either.
You could mention that Rooney took all the pens whereas Drogba didn't and Drogba probably has more assists than rooney (conjecture i don't know the stats) as the tactic was to hoof to drogba who would knock it down for fat frank. As for the Henry vs Ruud debate, Henry was a far better player. Slightly less goals, way more assists. Ruud undoubtedly the best out and out striker but Henry brings so much more. Neither Drogba and Rooney were WC though. For my WC is someone who is one of the best over a period of time (not just the best over 6 months cause they were on an awesome run of form like Kane). I think its debateable as to who would make the world 11 all the time (such as Bale is WC but would he make the team over Ronaldo and Messi and Suarez who would make the top 3 positions).
YOUR definition means that, meaning to you there have only ever been 11 world class players... which is ridiculous. Rooney may not be anymore but he certainly was world class. You don't become one of the all time top scorers at a club like United by not being world class.
No it doesn't or there could only ever be one world class keeper at any time or only 1-2 strikers. Adriam Durham's criteria when discussing this last night is would a player look out of place in a world 11. That's probably fairer.
Not even at any time, of all time. Because he thinks Van Nistelrooy is the greatest thing since sliced bread, no other striker in the history of strikers has ever or will ever be world class.
Could you at least phrase it as 'surely you can't be serious' so I can retort with the Airplane gag 'I am serious and don't call me Shirley'.
We have to remember Chelsea fans don't have high standards when it comes to having world class forwards. After all this is a group of fans who voted Zola as there greatest ever player, a forward with a 1 in 4 strike rate for them, who they only acquired because Ancelotti who was Parma manager at the time didn't rate him
