Have to say I thought that when I was at the game but, after seeing the replay, looked to me like Walker went looking for Van Aanholt after he kicked the ball too far - begging for a penalty as he was never catching it - I'd have screamed for it the other way to be fair - but I see things objectively in that - there's little objectivity from a lot of your fans and, as I say, I'd love to have seen the reaction from your side if Cattermole had committed an identical foul to the Mason challenge on Borini
Actually the Laws are completely silent on 50-50 challenges and I agree with your interpretation above. Re the two challenges involving Borini, they were not 'tackles' as Borini didn't have the ball. The onus on a player who is making a tackle is different. Pantillimon's tackle on Mason was use of excessive force and therefore should have been a red card. And the Defoe penalty claim was ludicrous. You can clearly see that Defoe turned Alderweireld by grabbing his shirt.
Those grapes sour enough for you? There's an irony to Sunderland fans complaining about bad tackles with Lee Clattermole in your side
I think these 2 pictures show what I was moaning about re Pantilimon; in the first photo the ball is already past the keeper so the movement of his leg to its position in the 2nd picture appears to me to definite attempt to take out Mason and in that context it is a red card offence regardless of the ball ending up in the net or not. I also maintain that if an outfield player had 'mistimed' a challenge to this degree and it had been missed by the officials he would be receiving an invite to FA HQ this week to answer a charge of serious foul play
My point proven perfectly! Cheers No Sour grapes at all - but if you are a dirty player you deserve to get injured - and Mason's challenge was dirty - as I said, the Daily Mail hate us and they thought it was lucky not to be sent off!
Wasn't even a foul, let alone a booking of some sort. God knows how you interpret that as a red card, just because Cattermole is a walking red card machine it doesn't mean every saucy tackle is worthy of a red, Mason won the ball and he never went in studs-up, it was unfortunate for Borini that he got the knock but this is football, knocks happen. Half of your team liked falling over so sticks and stones on that. 76 minutes for our first shot on goal is disappointing but this is a 90 minute game, we kept going until the final whistle and that's something Pochettino has installed in the club since taking over, it's why we picked up so many late wins last season, because of our attacking reputation a lot of teams tend to act defensively sound against us so we can find it hard breaking sides down at times. Our shooting prior to the goal was poor, Kane and Chadli both fluffed opportunities but on another they'd have buried them as they're two of the best finishers in the league so I'm not overly concerned it took us as long as it did to get a shot on target.
Rubbish! An outfield player would challenge for the ball with his feet - Looks to me like Pantilimon expected Mason to go the other side. And, from watching this over and over, the injury appears to happen before any contact with the keeper - his left leg collapses on the stretch? He had nothing in contact with the ground when he made contact with the keeper so how can he twist his knee? I'm working in the NHS Physio department tomorrow so will ask them when they think the injury occurred as I'm no expert but I can lay very short odds that the knee was done before any contact with the keeper! http://www.timesoccer.com/video/03/07-sunderland-vs-tottenham-live-match-highlights.html
Pantilimon did challenge with his feet! and where did I say that he injured Mason? What he did do was kick him when he could easily avoided the additional contact
I seem to remember Cattermole nearly breaking Modric's legs a few years back. Difference between that and Mason's though was Cattermole caught Luka midway up the shin after going over the top of the ball and was 2 footed whilst Mason got the underside of the ball and caught Borini on the ankle. It's a sore one but catching players on the ankle happens all the time, it's unfortunate but it's part of the game. Players will get injured from time to time, what the rules try to do is prevent unnecesarily dangerous tackles like those with a stamping action, or ones that come in too high. Yeah, Sunderland players managed to rip Kane and Walker's shirts but they weren't fouling, it was our players diving I don't think anyone would claim we were at our best yesterday and most people have been saying that you guys defended well for much of the match. It happens and better sides than ours have struggled to break other lower teams down. Your Geordie neighbours did a similar job on United last month, it's just the way it goes, sometimes you'll run out of steam, sometimes you might even nick a winner on the counter as Newcastle almost did. That's the opposite of context, it's ignoring it. The reason Vertonghen was booked was because it was a little dangerous. Borini got booked for a cynical foul, which is totally different. I was a bit surprised that he did get booked for it rather than a warning as there wasn't an obvious break on but he knew he wasn't getting to the ball and decided to bring down Dier(or whoever it was) to stop the move. They're breaking totally different rules so they're not comparible. Is this the Larsson one? please log in to view this image If so, they're totally different, Larsson's foot goes clean over the ball, whilst Mason won the tackle and caught Borini with the follow through. One's malicious whilst one's just a result of momentum taking him into the opposition player.
Why are you so bitter? You say we have rose tinted glasses but you've eaten the most sour grapes of anyone i've ever seen on this board
Borini's yellow wasn't for making a bad or dangerous tackle. He made a deliberate foul from behind to stop a break and he had absolutely no chance of getting the ball. I can't see where the Daily Fail have claimed that Mason should've gone. They mention that he was lucky to escape punishment. Not the same thing. The most obvious balls up by the ref was the shirt pull on Vertonghen in the box and they don't even mention it. Not the most reliable media outlet for football, for me. Can we try and keep things reasonable, by the way? Disagreement is a healthy thing on here, but try not to make it personal, please.
How? Where is he supposed to put his legs? Mason ran into him as much as Pantilimon meeting Mason - and I think Mason wrong footed him - the only person who knows for definite is Pantilimon if he was wrong footed - I have watched him lots of times as a season card holder at Sunderland and he NEVER challenges for a 1v1 with his feet - hands first every time - he was expecting Mason to go the other way. Mason didn't exactly jump to get over him - he let his body make contact with the keeper and relaxed to avoid injury - but It looks like it didn't work! All opinions mate - I can't see anything Pantilimon could've done differently - had it happened at the other end I reckon you'd say the same. Apologies for saying you were blaming Pantilimon for the injury - I made an assumption
Pantilimon clearly raises his leg and catches Mason in the midriff, well after the ball has gone past him. I'm not sure how the player's supposed to jump over that.
Who's made it personal? I agree it's healthy. The Daily Mail mentioning that he was lucky to escape punishment against Sunderland means that they'd have been crying for a red card if it was Cattermole (as you would've been no doubt) Sky Sports is a much more reliable outlet and they said he was lucky to escape without a red card!
It's milliseconds - how is a player supposed to change his mind in a reaction time faster than that required to be a formula 1 driver? How do you know? You make an assumption? I don;t claim to know but I make an assumption - the ball is chipped over his legs - natural reaction is to move your legs to stop it - but if it's already passed them then how is he supposed to stop himself doing something in that space of time?
Again proving my point completely - Cattermole playede the ball - his foot bounced off the top of the ball and hit Modric - you think Red card - I think yellow - he was nowhere near breaking a leg - played the ball then the man - exactly as you say Mason did - yet Cattermole is a red card - hypocrisy at it's finest. As for the ripped shirts - every corner for both sides there was shirt tugging - just because your shirts are made of paper and rip easily doesn;t mean you didn;t do it to us
I think that some of the comments about bitterness and sour grapes were pushing things towards the line, if you know what I mean. I generally think it's better to say something before anyone crosses it. Cattermole gets sent off for things that he shouldn't, at times, but I've very little sympathy for him because he's put himself in that position. He was a very talented youngster and his lack of self-control has seriously stunted his development, in my opinion. You'll have seen it better than I will, but every time he seems to have sorted himself out and is on a good run, he does something ****ing stupid. He's almost Barton-esque in his self-destructive moves, at times. As for Sky Sports, who was it? Merson? Charlie Nicholas? The ball had long gone. He foot was low and he raised it very late. It's not a reaction, in my opinion. He may have simply been raising it to protect himself, but I don't think that it was a delayed attempt to stop the ball. please log in to view this image Played the ball? Then the man. With both feet, straight legged and off the ground. That's a very poor tackle. How you can call that a yellow and Mason's a red is beyond me.
I only watched the Mason goal in real-time, and haven't seen a replay (stupid NBC) but i have to admit i didn't see a problem with the challenge. As a GK you can't shirk those situations. He just got done.
I mentioned in the summer transfer thread that on the one hand it beggars belief that, within a couple of years, M'Vila went from one of the most-sought after prospects in Europe to a player everyone seems to have forgotten about - although on the other, given he's flounced out of Rubin Kazan, Inter and Dynamo Moscow in the last eighteen months, as well as being exiled from the national team for a two year period, it's less of a surprise. The obvious question is whether he's matured, or whether he's just on his best behaviour for the duration of the loan before reverting to his old ways (something Spurs fans have plenty of experience with, namely Dalmat, Mido and Adebayor)
