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Off Topic Off-Topic Thread (Anything Non-Football Related)

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by TheOXOCube:5pur2, Feb 23, 2015.

  1. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    Don't get me wrong as i think Asad is a tyrant oppressor and should ideally be "taken out". But removing an established government, no matter how bad it may be, will lead to chaos and bloodshed, which has happened in all these recent regime changes. A proper viable alternative needs to be put into power to maintain control, but this is not there main aim is it.

    A more clearly defined powerbase is being established in the Middle East with Saudi Arabia's oppressive dictatorial government leading the way, allying themselves with Israel and the US. This is just the tip of the iceberg and I can envisage even more suffering and carnage over the next few decades. But the more chaos they create, the more dangerous the world becomes.
     
    #1201
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  2. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    The reason the West hasn't tried to dismantle Assad before now is that they didn't know which rebel groups would be on their side. They gave arms to some rebel groups to try and enable them to topple Assad themselves, but the whole area is so fractious, that the US and the West have no idea who will be fighting for whom. The issue is further complicated by the Kurds, the traditional enemies of Saddam Hussein and friends of the US, being seen as Terrorists by Turkey. Turkey is a key ally to the US as they need to use the county for a base in the area. As it turns out some of those rebel groups who the US gave arms to turned out to be ISIS. And a lot of the Iraqi Army weapons that the US gave, also ended up in the hands of ISIS. Did anybody stop to wonder where they were getting all of their heavy weaponry from ?
     
    #1202
  3. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    The media have no interest in reporting on what is happening, just on what they are told to report. Let's not forget the role of Saudi Arabia and Israel, who have also been funneling weapons and money to these groups. They are making a bloody mess of the whole area and they care little of the consequences of human life.
     
    #1203
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2015
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  4. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    I noticed that Corbyn rightly mentioned that he didn't want his election to divert the media away from the Stop the Arms fair.

    This is the real crime, right at the heart of the UK. We host annual arms fairs and invite dodgy ****ers from all over the world to buy mass killing tools. These people are from countries that have appalling human rights records and actively enslave child soldiers, and then we wonder why there is a refugee crisis ?

    The most sickening thing, it's dressed up as being a boost to our economy, ****ing disgusting and totally appalling.
     
    #1204
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  5. Smirnoffpriest

    Smirnoffpriest Well-Known Member

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    But what is a few hundred thousand (or a few million) deaths if it means a stronger power base for the USA and it's puppets Israel and Saudi, with increased cheap labour for the oil companies and zero protection for the workers or the citizens? So what that the citizens and cities burn, when was the last time you heard of an oil refinery hit, or a pipeline or a large factory hit in the area - these are the important things, and they are safe as houses in the present situation...
     
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  6. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    It's rather strange that they haven't attacked either Saudi Arabia or Israel. Considering Israel is the number 1 enemy of most Middle Eastern and "Islamic" fighters, they don't seem to get attacked very much. Mmmmmm.
     
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  7. SpursDisciple

    SpursDisciple Booking: Mod abuse - overturned on appeal
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    Houses aren't as safe as houses though.
     
    #1207
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  8. Smirnoffpriest

    Smirnoffpriest Well-Known Member

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    And that Saudi is a despotic nation which is responsible for Osama Bin Laden, and a lot of the unrest in the region, particularly the killing of Yemem civilians.

    Apparently over a 100,000 people signed a petition to arrest the Israeli Prime Minister for war crimes when he visits the UK. But the UK Government's response was that it can't arrest foreign statesmen as they have political immunity (fair enough), but the UK supports, and defends, Israel's ability to defend itself ... (by killing hundreds and thousands of kids, and committing genocide)
     
    #1208
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  9. goonercymraeg

    goonercymraeg Amnesia
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    There's **** all wrong with my medication <grr>
     
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  10. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Why do you think we invite them over? This one isn't just about money.
     
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  11. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...etely-change-the-way-pmqs-works-10498068.html

    Cameron will do what he always does and just squirm his way out of answering anything.
    He'll try to attack Corbyn and go with the whole security, "won't somebody think of the children" load of ****e that the Tories have started pushing.
    I suspect that some of the questions will be a little more interesting now, but that the answers won't be.
     
    #1211
  12. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    I've absolutely no doubt that the same people selling the arms are also looking for political favours from the buyers.
     
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  13. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    It's not just that. They're looking at the buyers.
    It's half a shop window and half an intelligence gathering operation.

    These ****ers can get weapons from someone and it's probably for the best if they get them from us.
    It allows us to monitor what they've got and it stops some other arsehole from making a load of cash.
    The problem is dealing with them in other ways.

    I like some of Corbyn's ideas, but his take on the military in general and some other issues seems incredibly naive and unrealistic.
    He's going for some sort of dream ideal but the world doesn't work that way.
     
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  14. Smirnoffpriest

    Smirnoffpriest Well-Known Member

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    I swear I just saw a bit on BBC news 24 about them discussing the 'Trade Union Attack... err I mean Bill' and a Tory was saying he was doing it for all the poor waitresses and builders who would lose a days work by transport strikes - what the same low paid workers the Tory government has been attacking by reducing working tax credits, decreasing benefits meaning low paid working people are around £750 a year worse off, stagnating the economy meaning less trade into those restaurants and for those builders, while attacking the unions defending the waitresses and builders rights to fair working conditions and pay.

    Nice one Tories - cheers, looks like it's even worse being a friend of a the Tories than an enemy...
     
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  15. Smirnoffpriest

    Smirnoffpriest Well-Known Member

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    But most of the people buying from these arms fairs are other nations - we and South Africa, and USA are the biggest sellers of arms in the world, and we know who buys them - Israel, Iraq, Saudi, ect and generally we know what they use them for. And it's only when they stop doing what we like (Iraq, Libya) that we actually invade and our own weapons are on both sides of the war, and are then in the hands of the militants and terrorists that remain after the fighting...
     
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  16. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Someone compared the bill to something that Franco would have introduced during his dictatorship.
    It was David Davis, a Tory MP! <laugh>
    Yeah, those were the "****ers" that I was referring to earlier.
    You don't think that they'll struggle to find weapons if we stop selling to them, do you?

    The way to deal with them isn't to refuse to trade them arms.
    They'll either buy elsewhere or start producing them themselves, which can have even more frightening outcomes.

    We know how to deal with a situation like Israel, but people don't want to do it.
    Most politicians won't touch the whole thing with a bargepole, as it's generally a lose-lose for them.
    The exceptions are normally complete bellends, like Galloway or those on the fringes.
     
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  17. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Corbyn's created a Shadow Minister for Mental Health position. Anyone disagree with that?
     
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  18. Smirnoffpriest

    Smirnoffpriest Well-Known Member

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    I have to say I am all for this, true it maybe selfish of me as having a mental health disability, but it can only be good. There is a mental health crisis building on us due to severe cut backs in treatment, diagnosis and support to patients. This might help reduce the effects of this crisis.
     
    #1218
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  19. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    Good move in my opinion. I've got 16 years experience in the NHS working in mental health. We were always the poor relation to primary care, and yet certainly in the work that I did, we were the preventative link in the chain before people became so unwell that they needed acute care; which of course was infinitely more expensive (not to mention vastly more traumatic for the patient involved)
     
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  20. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    This is an area in which I think various governments get things completely ****ing wrong.
    They try to make savings by cutting important services and end up spending more fixing the problem somewhere further down the line.
    The problem's worse, various people end up hurt, more money's spent and they think that they've made a good decision, cos austerity. <doh>

    Having healthy, educated, happy citizens is not only something that governments should be trying to achieve, it's financially astute.
     
    #1220
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