here here well said jock,it seems the only people with any sense are us fans on here, le shark hasnt got a clue and the council are even worse maybe us lot should run both.now call me stupid but here is a thought i have about the situation we are in,if the council buys out steve hayes and then rents back the ground to wwfc for the time being ,under an agreement like a mortgage over the next 10 years or so wwfc could buy it back like you do a house on a mortgage that would give wwfc time to get their selves back on a good financial footing,it would keep the club going ,the supporters happy and so what if we went into non league we already have the facilities to come back into league football
Maybe, if he can't get the 13,000 gates he needs to break even, Hayes will hive off the Wasps to someone else, before he gets well and truly stung.
Fair point JS. Sounds to me as though the historic decision was made without thinking through the full implications of the options. Given the 2 options presented didn't seem to offer much choice. Was there no group like GASP around then to oppose the move? Or maybe people saw Hayes as some sort of saviour.
hayes had us by the short and curlies then as he does now but we are even more financially worse off now, if he stays how many more millions in debt will we be.one question you have to ask yourself as a fan is would you prefer we still exist albeit probably a points deduction and relegated than whats looking inevitable if hayes stays and we have no club in the future.give me non league and still a club anyday ,how many more on here would agree with that remains to be seen,maybe it should be put to the vote on here.
No JS that's rubbish I'm afraid not to mention offensive and arrogant. How dare you say that the 14 year old kids that go to matches are in any way to blame for this mess. That is exactly what you are saying by saying that fans are to blame You see, football - and most popular sports in general - are completely different to any other business in that the shareholders might get the final decision but the business's customers - fans - will remain loyal to the club no matter what they're doing, no matter how ****e the product, price or promotion of the club is. That's a massive difference. If you voted for it in 2009, then you are to blame. I don't think that the 30-odd thousand crowd that turned up to Wembley to see us go up into the league voted on it, just like the schoolboy teams that used to get to play at half time voted on it. IT was a vast minority of people who voted on it. And by saying 'they didn't step in at the time to let people know how they felt' and therefore it must be their fault is a ridiculous statement I'm afraid. Next thing you'll be blaming the readers of the News of the World for the phone's being hacked. Get back into reality please, and get off that horse I can't see the top of while you're at it.
clearly this subject is getting a lot of us hot under the collar and we all have our views but hopefully jock and js can agree to disagree,this aint the gas room and most of us usually get along without falling out with each other and long may that continue,the one thing we all have in common is the love for our club.time to chill out me thinks
one thing i would say is spare a thought for one of our loyal fans blue soldier who is out in afgan fighting for our country ,hopefully that puts things into perspective.cheers lads
How have I made your point for you? I completely disagree! You cant claim that fans who didnt vote in 2009 are to blame. If there had been a referendum style vote on a matchday including everyone in the ground and everyone voted to give Hayes the keys in full knowledge of all the facts then maybe you would have a point. To suggest that the average fan has any responsiblity whatsoever for Hayes' dodgy dealings is at best laughable and at worst, as Jock says, bordering on offensive. You are entitled to your opinion JS but using the word apathy to describe thousands of fans who dont understand the business side of things is crass and incorrect.
Hayes could gift his shares in the club to the Supporters Trust and cancel his loans to the club. This would then allow WWFC to trade within its income and use AP to support any overdraft facility it needed from the bank. Also might see a squadron of pigs flying over AP as well!!
I was about to add my thoughts on the subject but I agree with Rocky. Probably best left before it gets too heated. How about instead voting on the likely outcome of the meeting tonight. I have put the 4 options on the Stadium post but I'll set up a poll. Might be interesting.
Just because we are passionate about our feelings towards the club, doesnt mean we need to leave it. I, like many others who use this site, enjoy a heated debate. Without wanting to speak for JS, I might not agree but I respect his opinion and welcome open debating - its healthy. Not606 would be very boring if someone posted something and everyone just agreed. So, as grown adults, can we promote healthy debate please?
Absolutely. I've just been catching up on this debate and it's exactly what this site is about. Some very different and informed opinions with no one calling each other names or ridiculing people who's opinions they don't agree with. Hats off to those involved. Most people on here do agree with one thing though - we don’t need a new stadium and we don’t want Hayes or Wasps any longer. But there is no middle ground. We either keep Hayes and Wasps and move to the White Elephant bringing on all the trouble that we fear. Or we campaign enough to have all these plans abandoned and are forced to re-build the club once Hayes pulls out and takes Wasps with him. I see the point that JS is making about apathy amongst a large portion of the fans allowing Hayes to push things through easier. There simply isn’t enough interest about the issue to build a big enough protest which makes the people that are seen as the moaning minority. But you can’t use that as a reason for saying fans are to blame for this situation. That is taking the point to the extreme to say the least and I can understand why Jock and Devonblue were quick to take issue with that. There is one man to blame for it and he is not a fan, he is a businessman using WWFC as a vehicle to make money. The point about there being no middle ground is exactly the reason why so many are sitting back and letting things take its course. Football to many is purely about on-field progress and going back to non-league would be failure rather than seen as a new beginning. These fans are no less a fan than we are, they just have different expectations on what they get out of supporting a football club.
You are right Wander. I understand all the points JS made just dont agree with some of the wording. I do think that, if we knew what we know now about Hayes and his intentions, then maybe more normal, everyday fans would have had cause for concern. Not saying that no one saw this coming, just that people look at whats going on on the pitch first. As for the debate on here - its pretty much the main reason I come on here. WWFC are my home town club and I care very much for their future, especially when its under threat. Thats why I take exception to being asked to 'leave it before it gets too heated'. Maybe these are the kind of fans who are apathetic?
