Wickham might not make it in a higher league, because I follow the Belgian League and it's arguably a lot tougher than the Championship. Anderlecht's success in the Europa League is surely a pointer.
well even if he does, thats still only 1 player from 1000`s, we will worry about wickham, you worry about crouch.
Signing Wickham is a punt. It might work out, it might not. From what I've seen of him, I'm not disappointed that we didn't go for him. He's ahead of other's his age physically but he's by no means technically impressive. Anyway, good luck to you Mackems for the next season, I've been expecting big things from you guys for a little while now, Bruce has underperformed with the funds he's been given but I still think he'll come good.
Thing is you say with the funds he has been giving, i believe he is still about 10 million in profit on transfers since he came to the club, and its not like he had a ronaldo to sell for 80 million to do it with. Harry is 62 million in debt as an example. (got nowt against harry like some, just comparing). I dont think Wickham will be the next shearer, or van baston or pele or whatever, but if he can be 70% of those players i am sure every Sunderland fan will be over the moon, we are not really expecting huge things from him this season, if he does deliver, bonus, but he is just a young lad (yes quite a big price tag, but then really, 8 million rising to 12 million isnt that big of a transfer in this day and age), he will get time to develope, we wont jump on him straight away. I think we do need another striker though, hard to get one that will score 20+ goals a season, but we will be loosing Gyan for a month with the ACN over the next 2 years, and i wouldnt want to rely only on Wickham and Dong for those periods.
2008/09 -50 million 2009/10 -7million 2010/11 -20 million 2011/12 +5 million So its actually 72 not 62, its late. and not harry i dont think 2007/08 -63 million 2006/07 -20 million 2005/06 -12 million 2004/05 -36 million 2003/04 -24 million from http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/tottenham-hotspur/transferbilanz/verein_148.html
Is that supposed to be £ or €? It looks like the former, but if you point your mouse at it then it becomes the latter. Either way, I'd suggest that it's wildly, madly, utterly wrong. Over £125m spent in 08/09? Bentley was our costliest player in that period and he set us back £15m. We'd have had to have signed 8 of him to spend that much. Oddly, the revenue figure is fairly close. All in all, I'd suggest that the site is pretty poor. Despite doing virtually no business last season, we appear to have sold 36 players and bought 44. Not very accurate.
David Bentley Blackburn 19.360.000 £ Luka Modric Dinamo Zagreb 18.480.000 £ Roman Pavlyuchenko Spartak Moscow 15.312.000 £ Robbie Keane Liverpool 14.696.000 £ Jermain Defoe Portsmouth 14.432.000 £ Wilson Palacios Wigan 13.200.000 £ Vedran Corluka Man City 12.144.000 £ Heurelho Gomes PSV 7.920.000 £ Giovani dos Santos FC Barcelona 5.280.000 £ Pascal Chimbonda Sunderland 2.816.000 £ John Bostock Crystal Palace 1.760.000 £ Fraizer Campbell * Man Utd free transfer Carlo Cudicini Chelsea free transfer César Sánchez Real Saragossa free transfer David Hutton Tottenham Hotspur U18 - Lee Butcher * St. Albans City - Danny Hutchins Tottenham Hotspur U18 - Leigh Mills * Gillingham - Adam Smith Tottenham Hotspur U18 - Andros Townsend * Yeovil - Jonathan Obika * Yeovil - Troy Archibald-Henville * Norwich - Cian Hughton Tottenham Hotspur U18 - David Button * Grays Athletic FC - Adel Taarabt * QPR Dimitar Berbatov Man Utd 33.440.000 £ Robbie Keane Liverpool 21.120.000 £ Younès Kaboul Portsmouth 5.500.000 £ Paul Robinson Blackburn 3.872.000 £ Pascal Chimbonda Sunderland 2.816.000 £ Anthony Gardner Hull 2.816.000 £ Teemu Tainio Sunderland 2.640.000 £ Hossam Ghaly Al Nasr 1.760.000 £ Young-Pyo Lee Bor. Dortmund 440.000 £ Tommy Forecast Southampton 352.000 £ Kevin-Prince Boateng * Bor. Dortmund 88.000 £ Lee Butcher * St. Albans City free transfer Dorian Dervite * Southend free transfer Leigh Mills * Gillingham free transfer Andros Townsend * Yeovil free transfer César Sánchez Valencia CF free transfer Troy Archibald-Henville * Norwich free transfer David Hutton * Cheltenham free transfer Paul Stalteri Bor. M'gladbach free transfer Danny Rose * Watford free transfer Ben Alnwick * Carlisle free transfer Jonathan Obika * Yeovil free transfer David Button * Grays Athletic FC free transfer Giovani dos Santos * Ipswich free transfer Adel Taarabt * QPR free transfer http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/tottenham-hotspur/transfers-alle/verein_148.html it even tells you what you spent it on, clever isnt it
Not sure how you come to that figure, but its still a deficit and more than Bruce has been allowed to spend. (which was the whole point of what i was trying to say)
well i have just woke up but i have just added it up and it comes to 122,584,000 expenditure from that list, and that doesnt include chimbonda which for some reason they have twice, so again not sure where you get 110,000,000 from.
Well your owns site disagrees with you and says Bruce has spent a net £18mill on a squad that was already expensively put together. 2011/2012 15.840.000 £ 5 23.320.000 £ 10 -7.480.000 £ 2010/2011 36.762.000 £ 29 25.608.000 £ 23 11.154.000 £ 2009/2010 18.722.000 £ 31 40.568.000 £ 27 -21.846.000 £ Anyway that site's clearly out of date, it hasn't even added in Modric's move to Chelsea yet
yes by keane to get us out of the championship, which he gave players long contracts on £40,000 a week and now we cant get shot of them lol I am just pretty sick of everyone saying he has spent a fortune, when in reality, he hasnt at all (i wish he had), he has had to wheel and deal to get players in for the most part, and got some good prices for outgoings. anyway i think we will be fine next season, maybe not Europe but then thats pretty bloody hard these days, especially the league route, but i can see top 10 again and maybe a good cup run.
I wasn't saying he spent a fortune but Bruce is a good manager and has outspent most, if not all of the clubs around him. I'm just saying I'd expect more from him - ie. he underperformed.
Stoke = 51 million deficit last 3 years Fulham = 47 million deficit last 4 years (yes 4 years ago it was - 31 million, so last 3 years they havnt spent much, but thats because they didnt have to after spending the 31 milion wiseley) Everton have done well on little money, but they have a good squad anyway and moyes has had the team for 9 years or something. Newcastle have done quite well, but then they got relegated and sold carrol as well. I just think you will be surprised at how much teams have spent, and we havnt even touched on top 4 candidates yet, havnt got time to look and work it out but its something like Liverpool have spent 500 million in 4-5 years, spurs 400 million in 8 years, man city god knows but a lot. So considering what he has spent, and our injury record last season (worst in the league and all came at once it seemed) i think he is doing a canny job, mind you if there is another end of season slump, i think thats it for him, he cant survive another one.
I was talking about the teams around you so the top 6 are irrelevant. I think you're taking this all too personally, for the record I like Bruce and think he's a good manager, much better than Pardew yet Newcastle caught you up so quickly it's like the last two years didn't happen.
I think the Spurs lads here have some valid points, i'd certainly agree that our signings would struggle for game time at Spurs, but i find that in no way insulting, as Spurs are one of only 7 teams in the league now that are plainly better than us, that's magnificent progress for us considering the not too distant history of our club. What Steve says about Bruce revamping the Keane team is spot on, Keane bought good Championship players to take us up, then bought players barely good enough to keep us there, and lashed out 4 year contacts, which has effectively lead to us having to cull players each window since. Bruce, for me, has got it right this window, the players aren't flash (Whickham may turn out to be, but it'll take time), what Bruce has done though is add some genuine Premier League footballers. O'Shea may be 30 now, but he still played the majority of games for United last season, we're not looking to beat United, nor are we looking to beat Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool, we are trying to get to the Everton/Villa level, and we are very close indeed to these sides now. Players like O'Shea, Gardner and Brown are certainl good enough for the group of 6 or so we fall into (Everto, Villa, Bolton, Newcastle, Fulham and oursleves), who are looking to try and get8th, or if we have a bit of fortune push for 7th. I don't think we're there yet, but i think this season for the first time the squad is wholly Bruce's, and this is the year to show a marked improvement, his judgement time. To mark our progress, it may seem backward, but could anyone envisage Sunderland selling 2 players for £44million a few years back? No way. We have a couple of bits of class, game changers in Gyan and Sessegnon, we haven't had that since Phillips. If we can add one or 2 players each year of that calibre, to a solid spine of 'players who do there jobs well' like O'Shea etc, that's how we can close the gap. We won't get to 7th this year, but we should get more points again than last season, then if we add 1 or 2 'marquee' players, and Whickham has a years experience in the league, we'll be getting somewhere. The progress for us from a 15 point team a mere 5 years ago is commendable, how we bridge the gap to Spurs in that top level group, well that's a big challenge, but at last we're competing now, and not a pushover, or cannon fodder for the big boys. We should be interesting this season, if nowt else!
Not sure why the top 6 are irrelevant, if thats where we want to be eventually, and whats the point of being in the league just to make up the numbers, like i said though i dont think we will get top 5-6 next season, but hopefully we are building up to it, but when you consider what the top 5-6 have spent recently, its going to be bloody hard work to get there. remember we were 6th at christmas last year, and not far off the top, then the slump happened and ruined it for us, but if we could have kept the pace, anything could have happened, so its not outside the realms of possibility. and regarding Newcastle, when they went down they kept the spine of their team, Harper, Enrique, Collo, Nolan, Barton, Carrol, Jonas so when they came back up, they still had the fight in them, and were better for it, they didnt make wholesale changes like most clubs do when they go down. I never once thought the toon would get relegated, but the 5-1 was a bloody shock to the system, but we just never turned up at all that day. anyway i have to go out now so probably wont reply for awhile, but been good debating. and BB said what i was trying to say but better lol
Definitely enjoyed the debating too and I'd agree that Bruce has bought well in this window. I also agree that aiming for top 6 should be a target but blaming your poor form at the end of the season is ignoring Villa and Everton's poor start to the season, without which would've left them further ahead of you. Same goes for us, we went on an awful run of 1 win in 10 or something which killed off our top 4 chances, we can also point to the Christmas period where we were in the top 4 ahead of Chelsea. The two Manchester clubs are probably the only ones that didn't go through a bad patch last season and that's why they're 2 of the top 3.
I agree on Everton, we knew they were going to come back very strong indeed, i think with Villa though, we genuinely thought we could beat them last season, in reality, they have been unstable since the last 6-8months of O'Neill's reign, and Houllier was a woeful appointment, i think anyone bar Lerner could see that. They were dug out because Young and Downing are quality wingers, and Bent will always get goals with service, but as a unit, and without those 2, i think there's little between us and them now. The stinger on that is that if they do finish above us coming season, nailed on it'll be due to that greedy ****ers goals. Everton are a team that every position has a quality performer, they are the tough one for us, brilliantly managed, and a really great midfield, and the lack of money actually has helped their first 11. Squad size and injuries is all that holds them back, but i think they will have too much for us this year still. I think we can get ahead of Villa and Fulham, and 8th would be great progress again, i don't see anyone coming from below us and making a big leap forward.
I'd agree with virtually all of BB's comments. That transfer site is still ****, though. It's in €uros, which is a little annoying, but it also misses out things like Malbranque's transfer to Sunderland entirely and claims that we bought back Chimbonda for the price that we sold him for, which clearly didn't happen. Bent's sell-on clause isn't included and his initial price, as well as those of Berbatov, Bale and Corluka, for example, are overblown. Sorry, but it's as bad as transferleague.
