Phew, this debate we are having gets more complicated and I feel now that I am almost having to defend some things that I haven't said at all. Let me be quite clear, I am not and would not ever defend people who have got rich by paying minimum (or indeed below that level) wages, and anyone who has evaded taxes should be thrown into jail and forfeit their assets to the equivalent amount plus interest. Genuinely successful business people who have succeeded paying proper wages and treating staff fairly should be applauded, without them the Country would be totally buggered. I will have one last go at the other point. If the cheats, the people who should not be claiming invalidity (because they are actually healthy) or unemployment benefit (because they are actually working) if these two groups were removed from their benefits, there could well be more for the truly deserving cases, something that I hope you would agree with. To claim under those circumsances is something that to me indefensible and while you think that £26k is "not a lot of money" to be claiming, to me, it is a hell of a lot (equating to nearly £40k in gross salary) and should not be handed out willy nilly. The accusation you made about the tabloids as I said goes back to our last debate about a month ago, you did not make that claim this time. I hope I have now clarifed my position and I do hope that you woudl agree with the above. Genuinely.
I work 42 hours a week and I don't earn anywhere near £40K ! I think I might just jack it all in and say I've got a bad back or summat ! On the other hand I'm from a different generation and I've got too much self respect to ever do a thing like that.
Yes, that angle is pretty much where I am coming from KIO and I admit to being surprised by the apparent defence of that kind of attitude on this thread, because TMC is not in isolation by any means. I find that a bit worrying really but I maybe question whether I did not quite make my position totally clear earlier in the thread. I do look forward to TMC's next post and hope that there is more middle ground.
The benefit cap is £23k so no one on benefits is getting that kind of money (I accept you're comparing gross/net), also housing benefit where does the money go? It's not the tenants money, how many tory MPs are landlords caning millions on housing benefit? Did you know social landlords rent is controlled by gov? Formula is inflation + 2% + £2.50 PER WEEK. That's what social landlords can up the rent by EVERY YEAR! Few years ago it put our rent up £30 a month (wages were paying it at the time not HB). If the gov want to lower HB bill why don't they change that formula? I asked Norman Lamb that & never got a proper answer. It's rent increases like that which are robbing the country not claimants. I know you're making a point but saying maybe you'll jack it in but you're generation don't do that etc, I find personally upsetting, I have worked from 16 started off on £2.60 an hour in 92 in a cinema until 2014 where I was medically retired at 39. It wasn't something I wanted I've been battling it since 2003 but I was going under trying to raise children do normal things & work, quality of my work was suffering so had little choice. Thing is this, if fraud was sorted out there'd be more to go round argument has been done before, it's not the case at all. Remember welfare payments cost 1% of gov spending, so welfare fraud is an almost insignificant % of that (estimated). This is what gov has done they've painted a picture that fraud is robbing the country & making gov poor but in real terms it's really small. The stupid stories that you see in the press are really UK wide few & far between. I happen to know a family with 9 children (single mum with kids & single dad with kids got together so between them had that many) they are in a 4 bed house & that's it they don't get a mansion or a million £ per year home that's it. I don't think it's a generation thing there are ppl sitting on benefits right across the spectrum. I feel terrible every single day in terms of illness & about not being able to work, it's awful I'd swap with anyone in a heartbeat. Which is why I think JC has got the right ideas, our society is setup on consumerism & jealousy. For example if I applied for PIP got higher rate mobility & I chopped the money in for a motability car I know for a fact several neighbours would start nosing around & start **** stirring because of jealousy ooh look he's got a "free car". Had similar last time I was unemployed, was trying to go self employed, job centre paid for ad in paper then got a notice an investigation was under way because I was working & claiming JSA (that's how it works when you are jcp supported) someone had phoned up, reported me saying I was working & claiming. Again jealousy **** stirring, as a result I had 2 weeks of panic attacks even tho I'd done nothing wrong. Also like the ppl who leave ****ty notes on cars parked in disabled bays, because they've decided just by looking at you that there's nothing wrong with you (you'd not think anything was wrong with me by just looking). This constant welfare bashing (like refugee bashing) has got to stop it's just inciting hatred. I'm not saying stop looking for fraud at all but it's just gone too far right now & it needs addressing. I could hold up the Camerons for example they claimed DLA for their son even tho they're minted (DLA/PIP is not means tested) should they have claimed it, should they not? Should we even be talking about an individuals welfare payments at all?
Things hotting up for IDS..... http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/united-nations-probe-iain-duncan-6350394
Anyone see the Jeremy Corbyn Panorama last night. Firstly I thought it was a bit of a hatchet job much like the one they did with Nigel Farage. Both screamed that the established political classes are worried and eager to discredit anyone who has slightly differing views that might upset their gravy train. The BBC once again looked like nothing more than a mouth piece for their rich rulers. Once again though it highlights just how disaffected many people are with the Tories and the Torylite, that Corbyn (or Farage) who may have some good policy ideas is making real waves inspite of some truly monumentally stupid ones too. Bah!
On the OP why we should vote Tory. They have given me the only reason I might possibly have to do that with the drone attack on IS. All this hand wringing is unbelievable. As if they might be there innocently.
Anyone seen the news about UK throwing it's support behing fracking? Another great move by the caring Tory government. I'm sure it was all above board. No shady deals. Sneaking it in via the back door while everyone (except the PM and his chums) are worrying about the refugees. How deep can they dig the hole before they **** the hell off?
Cameron is as lightweight a front for this lot as George W was for the Republicans. He initially was for the ice-caps and had a pathetic trip up to see them shrinking and now he has abandoned the wind farm subsidy scheme, started the fracking campaign which will destroy more people's environments and sadly has no opposition to hold him to account. This country is in a real mess.
Hmm yeah. That whole soft approach he has on the environment is potentially going to be quite a powerful gimmick. As an aside, do you remember when old Cameron pretended to care about the environment? God he's a cock.
