Match Day Thread PL: Arsenal vs Liverpool

How? ...

 

I suppose you think Lampard and Scholes were better players than Gerrard too then since the latter was able to do everything but the former two were better in set areas?

Can just tries to bulldoze his way through when there are better options available, Hendo picks the better option. I've not seen Can make a decisive pass, Hendo's done it many times. Can doesn't make late runs into the box, Hendo does. Hendo gets back quickly to help out, Can just gets back. Hendo is quicker, more energetic and shows more passion / desire. The only things I'd say Can is better than Hendo at right now is tackling and strength. And I've never seen Hendo be lazy because he was feeling tired after an hour, Can did exactly last night!

I already know you're going to dismiss some of the things I've said there but you need to recognise that energy, desire, passion, speed, strength, etc are all attributes too.

 

You've upset Greez, now.

 

Just like John Terry is a better than Messi

 

We had that conversation (a serious one too) yesterday

 

Lampard was a better AM.
Scholes was a better CM.

Gerrard was a better all round player. Simple

Reasons why Can is better than Henderson:

- More intelligent on and off the ball
- Physically stronger
- Better reading on the game
- More consistent passing
- Can run with the ball
- Ability to drive the team forward
- Better tackler
- Doesn't bottle big occasions
- Leader

 

Quantify Hendo's lack of ability?
Facts not hearsay or opinion...
Can is good, got the potential to be better than Hendo but to play him instead of Hendo right now because he could be better in the future is pie in the sky!

 

A serious one? I must have missed that.
You mean about Flanno? In that case I suspect Jimmy was pulling your plonker just now.

 

They are secondary attributes though. For a top club, being able to run around for 90 mins, get stuck in is like the 3rd/4th attribute that these clubs look at.

Technical ability, intelligence, vision, mental strength are far more important.

 

so you're willing to accept players play in different ways when it suits you but not if it goes against your desire to somehow prove Can is better than Hendo

As for the rest, Hendo is better at the ones in bold. The one in italics is neither, Hendo doesn't do it and Can is yet to show that quality for us.

 

Obviously hence my response

 

Secondary attributes...? There's a analysis straight out of the Champ Manager manual if ever I saw one

 

I've been watching different games then!
Point one, can't agree..
Point two, give you that..
Point three, not from what I've seen so far..
Hendo very rarely gives the ball away, his range of passing has improved greatly over the last few years!
Hendo doesn't run with the ball because he's looking to move it on after a 2/3 touches..
Can't agree with driving the team forward, Hendo is just has good if not better at doing that!
Can't question Hendo's bottle and LEADER? is that why Can isn't skipper and Hendo is?

 

Not sure what you're getting at - you're making it sound like working hard is a massive thing and top clubs/players can't succeed without it.

For the record, I love players who run around and fight for the ball - but what's the point of doing it when you can't do anything on the ball.

Milner has been excellent in that respect but what has he actually done on the ball in the last 3 games? Would you not rather have someone who wins the ball but actually does something with it?

 

You are the one that brought up working hard and you are the one that as a massive issue about it. I don't look for a player to be hard working as a first requirement but I wouldn't sign a player that isn't willing to work(aka Mario, Berbative, etc). you gave the examples of Toure and Silva, they both help out their teammates. they don't run around like Suarez, Tevez, Rooney, etc but they still work hard to help their team win a game. You have it in your head that for a player to be working hard they need to be running around 100% of the time, they don't, they just shouldn't be standing still when they are needed!

 

Matic? Quality player, most likely of the best DM in the league... But other than the odd run/pass what does he do with the ball other than give it to someone who can do something with the ball?
Wanyama (good player) but again, he wins it and gives it to others to do the "creative" stuff...
Milner can do the dirty work and is decent going forward too.
I'm not for a minute saying his better, he's no world beater but I ain't gonna piss all over players in my team who I see are giving 100% effort 100% of the time..

 

That's his role. His role is to win the ball back and protect the defence. He's not expected to make long runs or raking passes. He's a specialist.

 

Exactly!

 

I thought his role was "Would you not rather have someone who wins the ball but actually does something with it?" now he's not meant to do anything with it?
Yet when our guys do the same, you lambaste them for not doing anything with it?
Do make your mind up...

 

Unfortunately, this is why we are where we are. Because fans are overhyping players based on their efforts.

Any other big club, the likes of Lucas, Hendo and Milner would not be starters. They would be squad players.