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Off Topic Jeremy Corbyn

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by BBFs Unpopular View, Aug 17, 2015.

  1. FedLadSonOfAnfield

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    Again ... please separate 'communism' from 'socialism' in your head ... being left wing does not mean that you are by default both

    I'm not fully supporting him. I admire some of his ideals and principles, particularly around the environment, energy and the economically marginalised and socially disenfranchised in society. I question some of his stances on defence and some of his other economic / financial policy. Whether these ideas would be able to be implemented into policy is another issue. My own politics are probably-definitely not as left as he is but that doesn't mean I don't think he could be a good thing for UK politics. Also I can't stand Andy Burnham, the guy's a mug, and we've heard barely anything from the two women candidates so far.

    One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter lad ... people throw this word around like it has any political meaning, it's just another form of media scare mongering
     
    #101
  2. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    Utter media garbage, you should start educating yourself on the reality of how things work mate

    Start by looking up the word Jingoism <whistle>
     
    #102
  3. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    By pushing for dialog with those we are opposed to as Corbyn is suggesting, it is the opposite of Jingoism.
     
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  4. FedLadSonOfAnfield

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    You see we've got ourselves into this state where politics constitutes reactionary military aggression rather than dialogue followed by an appropriate measured response to any threat
     
    #104
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  5. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    This is where we are at, Labour right (tory lite) and Tory and UKIP spout jingoistic nonsense constantly as does their supporters in the media.

    It's an exploitation of simple minded patriotism of under educated ignorant idiots who live solely in their own little bubble.

    Thanks to modern society, the next version fo FIFA is far more important than 1.000.000 people dying because of the actions of your government.
     
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  6. DirtyFrank

    DirtyFrank Well-Known Member

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    Only as it is happening; on a voluntary basis. Integrated education is a growing sector in NI. The fact of the matter is that a dual or now 3 part education is unsustainable economically. Take the small town I'm from: since the introduction of the integrated PS, the state PS (protestant) and maintained PS (catholic) numbers have dropped beneath those the DE require to keep a school open. They will stay open longer for political reasons but eventually one or both will close.

    HS have started sharing resources such as sports pitches and science Labs.

    Obviously there are areas where due to the dominance of one side politically in the community this won't happen voluntarily.

    It's why I want to see two things to speed it all up.

    Devolved tax powers. The rest of the UK subsidises our current system to both their economic and academic disadvantage. NI is always at or near the top of the tables results wise. This is down in some way to the continuance of the grammar school system but I also believe it is down to the smaller class sizes and so greater teacher to pupil ratio. We get what most in the uk would love as the ideal because we insist on 3 schools for a population England would have one. (Got to take into consideration we are still largely a rural community however)

    But if our elected officials had to tell the electorate it's only possible to stick with the current system at the expense of higher taxes or the removal of another service..it may speed it up. People don't like spending their own money.

    Remove religion from school's. If it can only be taught as a general all religion encompassing subject but is removed from the structure and culture of state schools all over the UK then it's easier to argue for it here. I'm not saying remove the ability to set up a faith school but remove all state funding while still insisting the state curriculum including an unbiased fact based multi religion class is adopted by all schools. That will counter any attempt at indoctrination on either side. It will also price most folk out of opting for a faith school.


    In effect it would render faith schools meaningless outside of Sunday school.

    Now neither of these things will happen so all we can do is hope the large majorits of the population send their kids to the integrated schooks until it's ludicrous to keep the others open.

    Will this help community coherence? Needs more than that. I mean I went to state schools so wasn't taught Irish or GA sports. These are thinns that belong to an "Irish identity" I would have liked to have them. Mix up the sports, music, culture, language at PS level and it becomes less them and us as kids grow. It's part of your culture not some strange mysterious one across the road.

    We've got to rent separate the ideas of nationality, politics and religion at young age to ron the bigoted of their lazy generalisations. Harderfor the nutters to convince if everyone has been immersed in each others culture fro a young age.
     
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  7. DirtyFrank

    DirtyFrank Well-Known Member

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    Apologies about spelling. New phone, lovely to look at a bitch to type on.
     
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  8. Page_Moss_Kopite

    Page_Moss_Kopite Well-Known Member

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    Yeah ok Mr Custard.

    please log in to view this image




    please log in to view this image


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    :biggrin:
     
    #108
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  9. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    I agree totally on education standard being relative to class size for obvious reasons.

    Part of the problem for me DF is politics and the media as well as academia. Much of Academia is morally bankrupt these days and pushes a narrative of the elite class.

    The bottom line I guess for me is parenting and community, we need to produce less jingoistic more thoughtful kids. Again Grass Roots.

    Instead they groow up, get funneled through education systems that teach them to be subserviant and conform to the standard norm whether that norm is right or wrong.
    School and higher education is where you learn there are things you can say and cannot say, things you can write and cannot write, all dictated by the elite class and furthered by banktupt academia.

    The media are so destructive to youth

    Just to point out the academic corruption, there are academics that say that Iraqis are better off now than before their country was annihilated.. reasoning that they can say things htey could not before, the fact that all that is there to hear them is fire and rubble seems ot be besides the point, this is morally bankrupt, just one example of millions.

    Lets not forget who dictates education standards and cirriculum, the elite class, via academia.

    Parenting is a huge issue.
    It should be Families connected via communities, but ets face it, theese days in cities especially, people don't even know their neighbours after living next to them for several years.


    I do have one small example of how socialist ideal can actually lower cost. We have a management company, but all us residents do a lot of the work, we resew the gardens after winter and clean the place and hire a skip twice a year to get rid of all ur junk in the two apartment blocks.
    This reduces the management fee significantly and we do the work to a high standard cos it is our own area.

    I firmly believe 3 and 4 is far too early to start school. Not starting school till 7 will save a fortune in education costs and teachers have kids that are a bit more mature.

    Granted I don't have all the answers but I do believe it starts with us, not politicians.

    If we did much more the cost of maintaining society is far less. Paying someone else to do it is wasteful
     
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  10. HRH Custard VC

    HRH Custard VC National Car Park Attendant

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    She was a witch
     
    #110

  11. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    Here is where we're at with neoliberalism.

    DWP staff given suicide guidance ahead of Iain Duncan Smith's welfare reforms
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...n-duncan-smiths-welfare-reforms-10470754.html
    The government know the impact of their disgusting policies already before rolling them out.

    Wealth transfer to the rich, which is what Austerity is as proven by £80bn in cuts to services used by the middle and lower class since 2008 and approx £80bn in banker bonues since 2008.

    Banker bonuses about to reach £100bn since the crash. Rewarded for destroying the economy
    http://www.theguardian.com/business...e-bonuses-to-top-100bn-since-financial-crisis
    Corbyn should be a shoein given the reality but most people are ignorant of the reality. Luckily for neoliberalism, people with a few quid are **** scared of losing it, sad things is, they are losing it with fraud, false inflation cuts to everything and Quantitative easing
     
    #111
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  12. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    I love Frankie Boyle's take.

    "50k for Thatcher's funeral.. that was enough to buy everyone in Scotland a shovel and we could have handed her over to Satan ourselves"

    <laugh>
     
    #112
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  13. DirtyFrank

    DirtyFrank Well-Known Member

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    Oh I agree BBF. It's one of the things I've loved happening over here (I'm sure it's not exclusive). Community Association's.

    Even if not a direct member they encourage neighbours to get out, socialise and participate at a time when we are isolating ourselves with technology.

    Our town has one with a community centre with classes/groups for mums elderly etc for , town clean up and enhancement. It's Co opted a long running children's summer football league, lead to the creation of a running club (half the bloody town seems to be in it lol)

    It's also a more powerful front when meeting with the council and local authorities. The local councillors, because they participated and are identifiable feel pressured to side with the community than hide behind the council screen. Actual representation.

    I've always thought the key to NI problems was community level participation and organisation. Let us find the solutions to the local issues using local resources. The govt should just gives us the bloody money to get on with it.

    Yes again there would be dangers, particularly in a community dominated by one culture but I think the vast majority could get on with it more efficiently than the area council.

    It's getting past that idea of "why should I do it, I pay my bloody taxes!"

    Ironically it's very traditional Conservative in its idea. Small state there to largely keep outof a communities way to do what needs to be done on its own.
     
    #113
  14. BBFs Unpopular View

    BBFs Unpopular View Well-Known Member

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    Well put Frank.
    "It's getting past that idea of "why should I do it, I pay my bloody taxes!""

    Couldn't have put it better. You hit the nail on the head. If people realise that doing it yourself reduces taxes, taxes that are spent badly..
     
    #114
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  15. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

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    I think this is one thing SOME areas of the US do a lot better than here.

    Its also something that really helps the cops etc show thier face to the community and not just be a faceless uniform etc.

    I agree it is a more traditional view but conservative? maybe but not tory.

    Perhaps a long time ago the churches would orgnaise the village fete or whatever etc etc but that all went so peopel have to develoep the new skill which is remarkably like the old ways

    relearn i guess
     
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  16. Tobes

    Tobes Warden
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    Cuts in public spending and bankers bonuses aren't connected, so that's a daft assertion, to state that austerity is about lining the pockets of the wealthy.

    The moral aspect of cutting benefits whilst failing to tackle tax evasion with equal vigour is a Tory mainstay, and the reality is that ordinary people resent people who are seen to be taking a free ride and over estimate the actual fiscal impact of the feckless. The reason being, that the opposition failed to ensure that the facts were widely broadcast.

    Most people want a fair and just society and your other daft assertion is saying that fear of losing what they have due to Govt policy is what drives those who have made a few quid. That's a total nonsense.
     
    #116
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  17. DirtyFrank

    DirtyFrank Well-Known Member

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    Not Tory since Thatcherism but it was one of the founding blocks of Conservative thought. Which is why I'm a cross the lines kind of guy. The modern Tory party has twisted it to mean "not our responsibility" or "you are poor because you don't do for yoyrself" Same goes for the US republican party. They originally wanted small less interfering state and trust the community to look out for one and other but it's twisted to be an excuse not to be a responsible govt. And yet taking that aproach has necessitated both parties becoming more interfering in the lives of its citizens as they police those they paint as the enemy.

    Alternatively socialist based govts have been all about giving power to the people but yet in practice have time and again not trusted the community to do it. They micro manage which results in a community expecting everything to be done from them and who feel powerless and disenfranchised when reality hits that a faceless bearuracy just simply can't meet the specific needs of local communities.
     
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  18. Page_Moss_Kopite

    Page_Moss_Kopite Well-Known Member

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    How about Dun-Smith's latest assault on the benefits system tobes.

    "Mr Duncan Smith focused on the Employment Support Allowance, which is paid to those unable to work on health grounds. Those who receive the payment have their fitness to work tested under the Work Capability Assessment."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34038928

    Of course there's a few on ESA working the system and no doubt some on it want to work but can't, but if a doctor says you're not fit enough to work you shouldn't be blackmailed into doing it and trying to find "a few hours" employment in an overcrowded jobs market where even able bodied people are finding it difficult to find sustainable employment.

    I see your point about people resenting those seen as looking for a free ride but the "we're all in this together" Tory battlecry is pure bullshit as this story clearly indicates.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-34042547

    The SNP vote makes the Labour Party leadership election a waste of time, the Tories will be in power on a permanent basis.<grr>
     
    #118
  19. DirtyFrank

    DirtyFrank Well-Known Member

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    I dislike this an ideas bad because it came from a Tory or Labour govt so we won't use it or see it through. It comes down to application and intent. So here's my challenge to you all. Take all the ideas the latest Tory govt have proposed but through application make them fair and good policies: Go!
     
    #119
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  20. Tobes

    Tobes Warden
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    Tbh I've no real issue with the basic principles behind what they're attempting to do with benefits. They're trying to remove it as being a lifestyle choice, and ensure that those who are claiming are both not cheating the system and are actively seeking employment.

    The moral issue for me, comes with the way they're being targeted whilst not putting the same vigour behind clamping down on the tax dodgers and non doms at the other end of the spectrum.

    I like what they're doing with the living wage proposals though, if they follow through on that the that'll be a massive boost for millions in our society, and will make the gap between benefits and the lowest paid one that encourages those who do, rather than those who don't.....
     
    #120

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