Match Day Thread PL: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Why do people always claim "realism" when they're being negative?

 

Realistic rather than negative. Good point but we missed out on 3 given the unusual circumstances.

Which fact did I get wrong? I'd be interested to know.

 

That's my point, it's all about interpretation and opinion. No facts wrong, and I wouldn't presume to tell you that you're "wrong" - just that you seem determined to see the worst.
We all watched the same game, we're all reasonably knowledgeable about football, but we don't all draw the same conclusions, so I think it's unfair to suggest that one opinion is somehow objectively more realistic than another.
Some were expecting us to get tonked and are pleased we didn't, that's all. Hardly an unjustified "euphoria".
Personally, I expected us to put up a good game and I'm a bit disappointed that we didn't win.

On the evidence of the season so far, I can't see us being consistently good enough to be title challengers, but neither do I think we are pushovers who should be quaking in our boots every time we come up against a top team.

 

This is most interesting. What You've said is no different to what I've written. Striking in similarity in fact.

So why is it that I am 'determined to see the worst'? You've analysed it in the same way that I did, you've drawn the same conclusions despite what you said. We were expecting a real tough match but we didn't because Arsenal had a dreadful uncertain defence and their passing game was off. And we are both disappointed we didn't win.

And I even agree with your concluding paragraph.

So I'm baffled by your assessment of me being negative.

 

First chance to post after coming to work straight after the game. Disappointed at half time - relieved at full time. And alan Smith is bad enough with anti-Liverpool bias, as he was last week, without his beloved Arse involved. Utterly dreadful, but then again the Ramsay goal seems to get all the attention, whereas the blatant trip/red card/pen committed by Cockhead on Ford is simply passed over (more later), as was the full-nelson on Benny.

Anyway, my ratings:

Migs: 9 Best performance in a Liverpool shirt.(MotM)

Clyne: 8 PROPER full back. Could be Brendan's best signing to date.

Gomez: 8 Or maybe he is. Left dreadfully exposed for much of the second half, but ****ing sweet so far.

Skrtel: 8 For once he wasn't bullied to **** by giroud. With Benny on our team now he only needs to worry about Spaghetti Western Costa.

Lovren: 7 Getting better, indeed. Only fault is that things bounce off him like a superball off corrugated iron.

Lucas: 7 Tired a bit, but I still preferred him to Milner.

Milner: 6 Okay, he runs around a lot, and after Gerrard that is something. But in those first 20 mins of the second half when we were really under the cosh he gave the ball away every time he touched it.

Can: 7 Better going forward than defending, but does have composure in the final third.

Firmino: 7 Supports the man on the ball during breaks forward, always finds space AND closes down. Faded in second half.

Coutinho: 8 Who looked better, him or Sanchez? But faded again in the second half. Should have a stonewall pen in the first.

Benny: 7 Bad miss and a couple of Hollywood efforts in the second half. Deserved at least one pen.

Subs: Ibe; 6 Has he lost a yard in pace, or is he still injured? A lot, lot further off being sterling's replacement than some had hoped.

Rossiter; 6 Covers space well and gets his foot in. Often crowded out with the ball, though that was because teammates were not always offering themselves in the second.

Moreno: 6 Should have been on 20 minutes earlier to help out the exposed Gomez.

Brodge: 7 We knew arsenal would come back in the second, and he was slow to react. Not his fault the strikers, the woodwork and a weak ref didn't help us.

Team: 7 At the start I'd have taken a draw, at half time I could believe we weren't three up, at full time I was happy with a draw. I imagine they feel the same. can't help but feel that Studge would have got a hattrick there. Will Brod have the nerve to play him up front with Benny when he comes back? Really think they should try.

 

Fair marks Donga however I would rate Lovren higher than Skrtel. Lovren is f*cking up less these days which is encouraging. But that's not to say he didn't make any mistakes - he rushed out once and didn't get the ball, he lost Giroud who should have scored, and I think he should have done better when he missed a header and Sanchez should have scored (will need to re-watch that one - could be being harsh).

Last night's performance pretty much sums up Skrtel as defender and it's easy to see why he gets away with everything. He struggled a bit in the first half IMO - always playing deeper than his partner, unable to hold a line, scuffed interceptions, and not for the first time this season, he was slow to react when he and Milner won the ball. Nothing major (apart from the last one).

The second half - he drags the line deeper. So now he's defending in a set up which he is comfortable in but at the expense of the rest of the team because we're under the cosh. To be fair, that's what he loves and it's what he's good at.

He then does his trademark last ditch tackles and interceptions - but this is not great defending. He has to do this because he has conceded so much space in front of him. He's effectively correcting his own errors.

I know I'll get abuse but the defending wasn't as good as people are making out. Clyne and Skrtel were caught out and Ramsey's goal was fine. Sanchez should have scored his header. Giroud should have scored. And Lucas should have given away a penalty. Those are 4 great chances.

BUT - we are defending better. It's not perfect and it never was going to be straight away however the signs are positive. Personally, I don't think it's down to coaching - I think it's down to having better players i.e. Clyne and Gomez have added so much to the back line and having Milner (and Can) has given more power and solidity.

 

Miner doesn't really add much to the team when on the ball but this guy has an engine on him and it's infectious. Really want to see him whipping balls in because his crossing is brilliant.

 

I would say that their passing game was off because we pressed them well and worked hard all over the pitch to put them off their game, the same with their defence we restriced balls out into midfield and put the pressure on so I'd rather think it was our good work other than their bad.

 

Our pressing from the front has been really good this season. We forcing so many errors as a result of this.

Just need to be more ruthless.

 

Arsenal work that left side well with Sanchez using Monreal on the overlap, it's difficult to defend against and Clyne worked hard but was under pressure. Skrtel helped him out but was slow to see it at times.

 

I agree, we have to be clinical.

 

I Giroud is a great striker, he just needs help during the season because he can't do it all on his own.

How many corners did we take short? Frustrating as hell when Benteke, Lovren and Skrtel are in there!

 

No one ever complains about people being positive

 

Good point. Some tend to counter any positivity if not directly complain about it though.

 

Yer all very harsh.

Imo we are one player away from our best 11 and we got a freaking great result away from home. Give some credit to arsenal. They had real pace and speed of thought and we did a decent job holding them out.

Roll on West ham. On my view same team please Rodgers and when henderson is fit put him in for Lucas and let's go.

If coutinho is moved from left side again I'll go mad. He is far better coming from there and had several chances he made himself.

 

I agree. Reactionary **** that's what they are.

Say anything remotely nice about certain players and they have to give that player both barrelled with imaginary faults.

 

And awful lot. I didn't get it as I felt we had a reasonable height advantage in places.

 

A couple of the corner routines could have worked but when you've got a big man in the box and they've got their main two CBs missing, why not just put it in the box?

The one where Milner made a run and the other player passed it to where Miner was previously stood was a particular highlight