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Match Day Thread Southampton vs Everton 15/08/2015 12.45 pm

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by saintsfcfan, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. saintalfie

    saintalfie Active Member

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    I dont blame Pelle for yesterdays loss either, but i agree with much of what FLT says regarding his inability to hold the ball up a la Lambert, and he also loses out in the air to opposing central defenders far too often for such a tall chap. He has scored reasonably regularly for Saints and he is a crowd favourite, but i find Pelle a very frustrating center forward at times. And im no manager, just a punter in the stand saying what he sees !
     
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  2. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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  3. SaintRachel

    SaintRachel Active Member

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    Morgan was a big miss. As was Toby. And Ryan... and Nat... and Fraser.
     
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  4. ......loading......

    ......loading...... 25 undefeated

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    At least two of those are coming back...
     
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  5. Pelletron

    Pelletron Well-Known Member

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    Sorry FLT, wasn't online yesterday. Nice, detailed response - all good points. I love Pelle for the goals he gets, though I think he has flaws: as you say, his head goes down a lot, whether due to misplacing a pass, or being a goal down, or having a bad ref's decision against him; and maybe linked to that, he doesn't seem a guy you need when you're a goal or two down (although it seems none of our players are, as we seem to find that situation insurmountable) - when you're down, you need a guy who puts away the one chance you get the rest of the game, and he's not that guy. So he has flaws. But I think some of his touches are sublime, and it's often frustrating to watch him bring a ball down so perfectly, or pick up a pass so well, only to completely mishit the shot. I also think his backheel was a great bit of improvisation yesterday - as much as it annoyed you - which Mane maybe should have done better with. It came to nothing - well, the equivalent of nothing for Saints: a corner - but that was down to Mane rather than anything Pelle did, as that was pretty much a chance created. He is definitely better in the first half than the second, and can fade off and become anonymous (as can most strikers at times, as Rickie did too), but his dominance in the air is also well worth having in the side (though might add that might sometimes be better as a plan B).

    I'm guilty of loving him at times, and getting really frustrated with him at others (during his droughts, and when he uses his energy to get frustrated with himself and others more than he uses it positively to get back into the game), and I'm certainly not an apologist for his flaws. I just think we'd miss him a lot if we didn't have him, and that with the fast players we have now been able to put around him, we can see him make a lot more of his clever layoffs and flick ons. Just like him a lot as he offers something that no one else on the pitch does; he intimidates defenders; he wins balls in the air more than he doesn't (though he can be guilty of not really trying - or appearing not to - in that department on occasions); he scores goals - am certain he'll score more than he did last season, if he stays injury-free; I'm pretty sure when he's at his best, no defender can defend against some of his clever flicks and disguised balls, no matter what they pick up about his style of play and how to check his runs or positioning or how to beat him in the air; and he checks the linesman better than anyone else in the business. I don't think he warrants the levels of dismissal he sometimes gets from you - though I am definitely not offended by others' view on any player, so don't worry there. :emoticon-0148-yes:

    My own personal thoughts on why Ron plays him week in-week out is I think he is clearly a confidence player, and if he is dropped, I get the feeling we may not see him recover his confidence for a while, rendering him useless. In that way, as well as sharing a similar hairstyle, he is akin to Superman, and the bench may as well be fashioned from Kryptonite. Ron needs to persevere, knowing he is a great source of goals. Ron believes that averaged over the season, Pelle will guarantee 15-20 goals - that's as much or more than Rickie scored in the Prem. He would have surpassed that if half of his woodwork hits last year had gone in. So rather than losing that for months, he needs to manage carefully a player he clearly believes in. He would be snapped up by half the teams in our division if he was on the market, if not close to two-thirds. He's a 1 in 3 man for Saints (and that's including a mammoth and hopefully exceptional drought), and a 1 in 2 man for Italy. Antonio Conte clearly wears the same glasses as Ron! :emoticon-0103-cool::emoticon-0126-nerd:
     
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  6. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    I agree with nearly everything you said there, except the one thing that scared the hell out of me... :) You want more of his "clever" flicks? I seriously, seriously, seriously want a a lot less of them. For me it is the biggest flaw in him that he tries something clever most of the time. He needs to make the clever flicks less and the hold up play and possession more, to improve as a striker. If he did that, then for me he's be getting right up there.

    I'm not sure about the arial domination either. If a ball is played high to him, the CB gives him a touch so he knows he's there and Pelleesps to flick it in and the CB or his partner drop off and get the ball, the stats will show Pelle wins the header, but I see the other team have possession and therefore the CBs win that situation. I don't want to dwell in that though as that's not Pelle's fault of the ball is played up in the air too him. I think he could position himself better for those, but that's picky so not fair too bring in really. It's the flicks and not holding it up that et me.

    I am also a little stunned that his touch has been described as "sublime"... Lallana and Lambert had sublime in their locker; not Pelle for me. He often gets the ball caught under his feet and I think that's because he's rushing to get a shot or a killer pass away. I believe quite strongly that if he just had a little more composure we'd see a vast difference and the team would benefit.

    Everything with him to me seems to be BANG! instead of touch, set, then trigger. Just like his air shot in the first half yesterday. If he connected it could have flown top corner, or row Z, yet a quality striker would have taken a touch in that situation. There is always a time and a place to take a shot or pass early, but that shouldn't be every time.

    I love him for his passion and goals and I probably harp on so much about him because I think it is a really simple fix and I'm amazed neither he nor the coaches can see it.
     
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  7. PapaWaigo

    PapaWaigo New Member

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    I can't believe that people are calling for us to exit the Europa League to focus on the Premier League? Didn't we focus on the Premier League last year to get Europa?
     
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  8. fran-MLs little camera

    fran-MLs little camera Well-Known Member

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    Exactly...I would sacrifice a few PL places to do well in the Europa, but then we will have to qualify next year by winning it or either/both domestic cups. It's a plan. :)
     
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  9. Shepherd's Clearing

    Shepherd's Clearing Well-Known Member

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    I can't really add much to the debate as a lot of the contributors are far more eloquent and seem to have better grip on systems, players and so forth than I do. I often let my emotion get the better of me and will say [or more often as I get older 'think'] something on the spur of the moment but the part of Pelletron's post is the problem with Saints that really, really gets to me.

    When was the last time we came from 2-0 down at half-time to get a result? The only times I can remember in recent times coming from two down was at Chelsea [I think] which was Adkins last game and at home to MK Dons. I think we were not 2-0 down at half-time in either game.

    Why should it be if we are losing 2-0, as on Saturday, nearly anyone who supports Saints just says, 'oh we've lost that game'. Have we no backbone at the club? It can't be the players because that side of Saints has changed many times over the seasons.

    Put it this way, I cannot in anyway imagine Saint doing what Stoke City did to Spurs on Saturday. I don't think it would ever happen.
     
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  10. Onionman

    Onionman Well-Known Member

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    Coming back to win from 2-0 down at half time is a 1 in 50 occurrence. (http://5addedminutes.com/2012/04/03/the-not-so-dangerous-2-0-lead/)

    And the way back is to do what we did. Substitution at half time where required and keep plugging away the best you can. I don't know what you'd like to see? What would show "backbone"? It was surely trying to come back that left us open for their third goal.

    Vin
     
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  11. Whiteley Saint

    Whiteley Saint Well-Known Member

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    I wish this thread would slide discreetly off the bottom of the page so I could pretend it never happened :( We need the Midtjylland thread up soon so we can move on. It should be a rule when Saints are crap start a new match thread straight away and fill it full of posts saying we're going to rule the world. :emoticon-0103-cool:
     
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  12. Pelletron

    Pelletron Well-Known Member

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    It's frustrating. It definitely used to be a part of our game, but then back then (pre-relegation) we didn't get as many good results across the board. Maybe it's a trade-off. Last season we generally won if we were playing teams below us, surprised a few teams above us, but even if we went 1-0 down in the first ten minutes, we would mainly lose the game. Going back to the Pelle discussions, we could definitely do with a striker who is clinical. But we haven't always had a lot of ideas when we're down against teams as good as Everton were, so don't even create as many good chances for strikers to put away, nor do we threaten from set pieces. It would be great to add this to our game - psychologically devastating to other teams, who can't relax at 1 or even 2 up. But very hard to achieve.
     
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  13. Pelletron

    Pelletron Well-Known Member

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    Stoke of course have five Champions League winners in their squad, more than Arsenal, Liverpool, and Man City put together, so of course have that skill down... :emoticon-0110-tongu
    (The sentiment is tongue in cheek, but the fact isn't.)
     
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  14. Pelletron

    Pelletron Well-Known Member

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    Well, I want more of the ones that come off. I agree that they often don't, but they're also not often his fault, but a misread situation between players. Sometimes they're completely his fault, yes. But when the good ones come off, they're beautiful. But he does need to improve his success ratio there. He's not as efficient with the ball as Rickie was, and he is wasteful - I agree with that. But if we wanted someone who does what he does, and holds it up more and tries less creative things, I can't help but picture Emile Heskey in my head. Or Peter Crouch (much as I liked him for us once). Or even Jozy Altidore. They were good at holding the ball up. That's what our budget will get us - no room for an Alan Shearer, or Edin Dzeko. So for our budget, I'm more than happy with Pelle.

    As for his touches, some of his are really quite something imo - the way he kills a ball sometimes, or takes a high ball down. It's obviously all there in his 'locker' - he wouldn't be scoring goals like vs QPR or Stoke in the cup last season, or last week's header otherwise. I agree he needs to finesse, but probably won't at the age of 30.
     
    #514
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  15. Beef

    Beef Well-Known Member

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    So I don't know if any else heard or it was posted on here. But Koeman said Targett was unwell and only played because we have no one else.
     
    #515
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  16. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Yes, mentioned earlier.
     
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  17. thereisonlyoneno7

    thereisonlyoneno7 Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to put an end to the Pelle debate.

    I'm half Italian and my late mother always said we needed an Italian boy leading the line at Saints. That's good enough for me.

    (no Dani is really Argentinian...)
     
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  18. SAINTDON13

    SAINTDON13 Well-Known Member

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    Haven't seen this posted yet, seems a lot of people on crutches at SM!
     
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  19. fran-MLs little camera

    fran-MLs little camera Well-Known Member

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    I knew he had an ankle injury, but worrying to see Clasie in a boot. Is it contagious?
     
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  20. Libby

    Libby Derby County, we're coming for you

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    Anyone know when Clasie/Bertrand are due back.
     
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