Match Day Thread Southampton vs Everton 15/08/2015 12.45 pm

The thing that disappointed me most was in the first goal, the lack of effort of most of the players to get back. Fair enough the cross and finish were pretty special so probably wouldn't have made a difference, but they didn't know that was going to happen and I saw a lot of players jogging back.

 

Archers - just to clarify my view: I'm not blaming Pelle for yesterday and I said that in my post. I've just had enough of him not being able to hold up a ball properly.

 

Which I can't see anyone doing.

 

I think we had a similar set up in a game where Supermane smacked in a rather quick hat-trick, it doesn't work if you squander chances early on in the game. Pelle has to share the blame with the rest of the team, his job is to score goals or set up others, it just didn't work this game, but that may have been down to the quality and application of the opposition rather than his failure to play well.

 

I'll say it again!!! I'm not blaming Pelle, but what I am saying is that he doesn't not hold uo the ball when he he a defender up his arse. Mane, who is 9 stone wet, can. Why is this?

When the ball was played forward to Everton's strikers, they held it up very well and relieved the pressure off their defenders. We don't do that well and its the passes forward that Pelle doesn't hold up well enough, not the aimless lumps.

 

And that maybe true. But what a bizarre thing to focus on from yesterday, when there was so much worse out there from us to pick up on.

And as for comparing Pelle to Lukaku, which is effectively what you're doing, well that's just wrong and harsh. One striker cost about £8m, the other cost about £30m. One striker it tall, the other is a beast. I would love Lukaku in our side, but I'm not going to criticise Pelle for not being Lukaku.

 

When I played we always had a rule that we'd never have a go at someone who made a mistake; gave the ball away, missed a tackle etc etc. However, if someone was, for example,e out of position despite being told then that sometimes deserved a "talking to".

I put the team selection in the latter bracket. He tried it at Newcastle and it clearly didn't work. And I mean CLEARLY. So why try it again and against a better team who like playing on the break? I can understand not starting with Romeu but why not Reed who looked really bright pre-season?

Funnily enough I was one of the ones who thought that Wanyama should be going up for corners. I'm not so sure now! I'm pretty sure it was Mane who got back to challenge Lukaku which is nuts really. I'm not saying Reed would have out jumped Lukaku but at the very least he could have tracked the run and allowed Targett to go out and challenge Kone rather than having one of the CDs pulled out of position.

So, on this rare occasion I think part of the problem (at least) must be on the team selection and therefore on the manager.

 

The problem is that football is a game played by footballers. The manager can lay plans which look good on paper and when moving figures on a board...then you send out human beings to carry out your plans. Ronald will be learning what the players at his disposal are capable of from this and the next few games.

 

I'm not buying that, he's had the whole of last year and pre-season to learn what players can do. Many of us fans said that it would be a mis-match before the game, (check this thread) and if we can see it then he should have been able to. I knew we would lose/be in for a very tough game as soon as the line-ups were announced.

One game doesn't make him a bad manager, but I do think that he messed up badly yesterday. Hopefully he will learn that playing effectively 4-2-4 is ridiculous in this league.

 

RK did exactly the same at Newcastle and got away with a point but Everton are much better than them so we got our asses kicked.
No one minds anyone making a mistake, just don't keep making the same one

 

Ok let's compare him to Gomis from the Swansea game last year. Just one off the top of my head. Although Pelle is probably the closest striker in the league in size to Lukaku. He's a CF of the same style and type, so I think it's perfectly fair to compare him. Price isn't a reason not to compare them anyway, they're players in the same position and similar league positioned clubs, that is if you think Everton are in our "mix" in the league - I do.

If you don't want to compare him to Gomis or Lukaku, would you compare his holding up ability to Mane? Mane is better at holding up the ball than Pelle. Should that be so? Why is that? Why does the ball stick with Mane when he ha his back to goal and a defender up his arse, but not with Pelle? I think the answer is because he isn't very good at that and that is my whole point in Pelle.

I said at the very, very start that I'm not blaming him for yesterday. I've only said it about 4 times now so maybe it'll go in soon. We were poor in a lot of areas, and I did say that I pulled out Pelle because it's been like it for a while and in a game like yesterday, that is when you need you striker doing it right!

I even apologised in my very first post for singling him out, yet you've ignored that. I raised it as a discussion point on something I've had enough of and I did that because yesterday highlighted another striker doing what I'd like Pelle do to. If we'd lost and their striker hadn't played like that then I may not have chosen to highlight it.

I couldn't have been any clearer from the very start but what I saw yesterday just triggered my thought process in Pelle. If it's not a discussion you want to have, don't join in with it.

I DON'T BLAME HIM FOR OUR PERFORMANCE YESTERDAY. - hopefully people see that now

 

Ye

Yet strangely, I'd still rather have RK picking the team than any of his critics on this forum.

 

Ha ha. Me too. I actually got excited at the attacking line up!! Hindsight is a wonderful thing

 

The only thing I don't understand is why you blame Pelle for yesterday's loss.

 

I hear what you are saying and broadly agree. But in Pelle's defence I would say that we shouldn't be pinging so many balls at him in the middle of the pitch the way we do. It was like there was no other thought than to wack it up to Pelle. I can't remember what game it was now but last season there was one where Pelle didn't play and we showed much more variety in our attacking play because of it.

Maybe Pelle isn't the greatest but surely we can find another way of attacking.

Whilst I'm in moany mode, I thought both full-backs played way too much like wingers. There job is to defend first and attack second. It meant that the CDs were playing more like full backs half the time.

I can't believe we'll play the same way for a third game in a row so I'm confidently expecting things to pick up in the next few weeks.

 

Chelsea away.

 

I agree with this. Part of the reason I'm not overly fond of playing Mane centrally behind Pelle is that, while he creates havoc, the trade-off is that we often have no options on the deck in the space in front of the defending line, because Mane's look to run beyond the defense. Pelle is a contributing factor because he's usually positioning himself for the balls pinged at him, rather than dropping into the hole Rickie-style to build possession or making runs to create gaps, but an initiator playing behind him (perhaps Clasie in time) would allow us many better options than lumped balls to his head or hopeful hoofs over the top.

 

I put the blame fair and square on Lawro's 2 - 0 win prediction, it was the kiss of death.

 

Bit late with this DTLW