UIR. You're saying that Downing is a middle of the road player.Well you could probably say the same thing about Antonio Valencia until he joined Man United.He wasn't even middle of the road..he was bottom 6.And to add insult to injury..he was managed by Steve Bruce. Now players become better players when around better players and coached by better managers and coaches.It was evident with Valencia..it will be evident with Downing too.
U1R you gotta admit Valencia has looked better at United than his previous club to be fair. Sme for Hernandez probably too. besides he's our Fletcher, honest hard worker but not too flashy, so...? Stolen from the other thread OptaJoe Opta Sports 421 - Since Aug 2004, only 4 players (Lampard, Fabregas, Gerrard & Giggs) have created more PL chances than Stewart Downing. Craftsman. OptaJoe Opta Sports 34.4 - Stewart Downing has averaged 34.4 appearances over the past five Premier League seasons. Reliable. OptaJoe Opta Sports 135 - Stewart Downing has completed more crosses in open play than any other player in the Premier League over the last three seasons. Whip. Not too shabby might I add
This post is so fundamentally wrong on so many levels. Half my family are mancs (not by blood) and none of them think Carrick is good enough, worth it, or think comments about his lack of contribution is spin. They think he's a passenger in a trophy winning side. XI - XV players don't make an equal contribution in a successful side. You don't even need close to XI. If we collectively sold Ronaldo, Gerrard, Alonso, Drogba, AShCole, and Peter Schmeichel in his prime to Fulham, I'd wager half my house that they'd win trophies. Even with their 'rubbish' rest of the side. And every single signing we've made to date since FSG bought the club will pay for themselves in under a year if we finish 4th so Downing collecting a medal (even in the way Carrick did) is irrelevant.
Redconn. I used the Valencia as an example.Valencia at Wigan did not look like a player that was good enough to play for a top side.The reasons being is he played alongside poor players and was managed by an incredibly poor manager(Steve Bruce) and thats insulting poor managers. Now Valencia has come on leaps and bounds since he joined United seeing as he's managed better.I'm not going to suggest that he's now playing alongside world class central midfielders because he isn't... but they are better than Wigans. I reckon Downing will thrive in the same way Valencia did alongside better players and being coached by better coaches.
Errrr, not it isn't. Regardless of what you all say on the many 'we've got a better midfield that yours' threads going about the place like stuck records, Carrick has not been a passenger carried by the other ten players for the last five seasons. That is such utter rubbish that it beggars belief. I couldn't care less if half your family are a special breed of Timbuktu 'Mancs', they are still wrong. The the point I was making was that if Downing helps you to success at any level then the price will be worth it. Not too difficult to work out.
How many assists did he get with those 135 succesful crosses? 08/09 - 5 Assists 09/10 - 2 Assists 10/11 - 9 Assists So that's a total of 16 assists in a 100 appearances, not great.
Which is why Ashley Young has had 21 assists in the last 2 seasons with Villa, Downing has had just 11.
Valencia was bought for 16m from Wigan and does not top any of the assists, goals or crosses list for Wigan or Man utd over the last few years .. so is he better than Downing ? If you say yes I would appreciate more than just " he's just that sort of player" to back your claim please.
i think its utter madness to even think we'd play without full backs. 3-5-2 is wing backs not out and out wingers.
Irrelevant. You said yourself that the crosses were successful successful -Adjective 1. Accomplishing an aim or purpose Perhaps you should question the finishing of each cross as according to you they reached an intended recipient.
I'm fairly sure, although not positive is that many if not most of Youngs assists are from free kicks and corners. Which is still a great achievment, but fundamentally different to assists from open play. And you would have to assume he'd take them for United as well. It's always a concern when we sign someone (or evaluate performance of existing players) that you strip out things like penalties or goals from freekicks if it's a safe bet that they wouldn't continue to take them going forward. Suarez and Adam take great free kicks but if Gerrard's on the pitch, would they get the chance to take them still. Aurelio is excellent at them as well.
I think a lot of you are forgetting that for a long time Young was used as a second striker and sometimes a CAM. Naturally in those positions he's going to get more assists than somebody who crosses the ball in. Downing is used on the wing because he's good there - His natural instinct is to cross the ball. Young's natural instinct is to cut further inside and shoot. When you're playing with Agbonlahor, Bent and Heskey I'm not surprised he chose to shoot than pass to him.
It was OptaJoe that said the crosses were succesful, I was merely saying that even though the crosses were succesful they weren't of great quality as proved by the assists he actually got in that time. You then blamed it on the finishing, which was obviously wrong as Ashley Young was in the same team as him 09/10 10/11 and he had 21 assists in that time.
ok, apologies as it was his figure. I still think that comparing assists is a form of conjecture. Those figures may be correct but the circumstances surrounding each assist leading to a goal is variable. As mentioned above, Young probably took a lot more free kicks and corners. If we had the figures of the number of unsuccessful passes/crosses for each player that would give better picture. For all we know Young attempted 500 crosses, Downing 200. What is their success rate? .... and does that even matter anyway.
What we know is only Fabregas, Gerrard, Lampard and Giggs are above Downing for chance creation in the last seven seasons. I'd say chance creation includes all passes which get to a man in a scoring position, while anything which doesn't get there isn't counted. Maybe that's why Ashley Young and Aaron Lennon aren't in the top five.
Chance creation is a rubbish stat though, so are assists. Actually, every stat available to the public is absolutely useless, you'll have to define a chance here. I mean Enrique's 5 yard pass to Maradona in 86 counts as a chance created, but it wasn't really a chance created, it was just a simple pass. And Maybe Ashley Young and Lennon aren't there because they play riskier crosses to players who are being marked but are in good positions, while Downing plays the safe cross to a man who is unmarked but isn't in a great goalscoring position.
I'm reasonably confident we make our own stats and verify the validity of any externally produced ones. And supplement it with massive piles of edited video.
Goods points. I remember games when Gerrard used to knock balls over the top for a speedy Michael Owen to use his pace in order to create a chance. A lot of these were hopeful balls and not always calculated passes to Owen. At the end of the day an assist can be a perfectly placed peach of a ball or a defenders clearance or punt upfield. I was trying to think of an example and for some reason i thought of Ronny Rosenthals classic open goal miss against Villa. I googled it, the chance came about from a David James punt upfield and some poor defending. Now the chance wasnt missed due to the potential assist being poor, it was poor finishing. Likewise, Beck's pass to Owen at France '98, it was a simple pass and most likely wasnt meant as an assist. Each goal or missed chance has a number of variables as to why it was or wasnt converted, be it a great pass, puddle, beach ball or whatever. I think we can agree on the fact that some stats dont really mean that much.
