Beginning of the end of European Union- especially if any other country happens to be in similar situation to Greece and they are unable to render support.
greece is the only small one. they can't afford to bail out italy and spain. the way the germans have terrorised greece is a message to those countries.
British households each face a £500 bill to bail out Greece and save the crisis-hit euro. Britain will be expected to hand over an extra £1billion for the International Monetary Fund's £110billion rescue package. It takes the total figure spent by the UK in helping prop up the eurozone to £12.5billion - around £500 for each home. MPs and European MPs said they were outraged at the sum, with Tory backbencher Peter Bone saying: 'We should not be using money from hard-working British taxpayers to bail out a currency that we have nothing to do with. This is an abuse of the IMF system. 'It is sending good money after bad. There should not be a penny of British money involved. There is no chance that Greece is going to recover within the euro. ‘We are just wasting taxpayers’ money and piling austerity on the Greek people who will revolt.' Euro MP Nigel Farage, leader of the UK Independence Party, also told the Express: 'The mere idea more money should be committed to the IMF is an insult to hardworking British taxpayers. 'David Cameron will have a fight on his hands over this, especially from his own backbenchers, who will finally see that he is not the great euro sceptic he will have them believe.' Britain will hand the sum over despite warnings the latest bailout will fail to save Greece's shattered economy. Eurozone finance ministers agreed a second £110billion rescue in the small hours yesterday, following 13 hours of talks in Brussels. please log in to view this image Sleepy head: Jean-Claude Juncker (right) could hardly keep his eyes open as IMF MD Christine Lagarde (left) gave a news conference in the early hours of this morning please log in to view this image Address: Greek Prime Minister Lucas Papademos (right) and Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos (left) talk to the media this morning after a second bailout was approved The deal means every Greek man, woman and child will owe the eurozone and the International Monetary Fund about £18,500. Chancellor George Osborne insisted the bailout was good for Britain and would ‘hopefully’ allow Europe to ‘move on’. But many observers, including the former Labour Chancellor Alistair Darling, warned that the rescue deal looked doomed to failure, with Greece facing a decade of unsustainable austerity. Dutch finance minister Jan Kees de Jager said the agreement wasn’t ‘something to cheer about’. The International Monetary Fund is expected to contribute up to £20billion to the bail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2104059/Greece-bailout-UK-faces-added-1bn-save-crisis-hit-euro.html#ixzz3fnmzwZ3O
So then Dribs the UK weren't smart enough to not only opt out of joining the Euro currency but should have also opted out of bailing out countries that can't financially manage themselves within it. It's an absolute disgrace that those in the UK facing tax credit/benefit cuts have now got to to share the burden of bailing out Greece.
Good article on this EU fiasco http://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...xt-recession-will-kill-the-euro-31377957.html We best get working on a Plan B as the next recession will kill the euro please log in to view this image German Chancellor Angela Merkel leaves a news conference at the end of a eurozone leaders summit in Brussels on Monday. Photo: Reuters/Philippe Wojazer The euro is one recession away from implosion and its architects know this. The next time the European economy slows down, this thing will blow apart. Indeed, it might not necessarily need a continent-wide downturn for the next fracture. We, in Ireland, should be prepared for this eventuality. Before we discuss the economics and politics of the past few days, let's examine the appalling management of the euro system. Remember this is a currency with aspirations of replacing the dollar as the world's number one means of payment. You wouldn't run a corner shop the way these bureaucrats try to run the currency. Have you ever seen a worse management style than staying up half the night to make mega-decisions at dawn? If the board and management of a public company dealt with problems like this, the share price would collapse. There is quite simply no corporate governance within the euro; the way the system arrives at decisions is both laughable and terrifying. Consider the bizarre suggestion tabled last Sunday that the Greeks should have a temporary euro "until we see where we are". Was this a joke? It was in fact proposed at the 11th hour. Make no mistake about it, Greece was politically crucified on Monday and this grisly spectacle was cheered on by our own Pharisee political class. In true Biblical fashion, after his surprise Palm Sunday triumph last weekend, Tsipras found himself isolated, alone and impaled by Friday without even a thieving Barabbas for company. The crucifier, Germany, is now clearly out of control, but who is going to rein the Germans in? In the old days, France used to be strong enough to stand up to the Germans but this is not the case any longer. France is enfeebled and its president has neither the credibility of Mitterand or Chirac nor the chutzpah of Sarkozy. The British, who were also an extremely cussed counterweight to Germany, are now on their way out of the club. They can't be bothered. Britain may leave the EU at the mercy of the Germans and, believe me, the smaller EU countries will come to miss the Brits and their stubborn but oddly principled scepticism. This weekend in Brussels we saw a Teutonic kangaroo court dressed up as European diplomacy and it simply reinforces the position of the Eurosceptics in the UK ahead of their referendum. When/if the British go, others will too. A reasonably successful Britain outside the EU will prove to lots of others that the Swiss/Norwegian/British approach - trading freely in a growing global economy - is a lot more pleasant than being a ward of Germany. Look at Greece. It was given conditions that it simply couldn't meet and remain sovereign. This is the new reality. This is the implication of German rule. It seems to me that German financial vindictiveness was in response to the Greek electorate having voted No in the referendum. If this interpretation is accurate, we should all be scared, very scared indeed. When economic negotiations stop making economic sense, you should begin to question the motives of the EU. So for example, how could the Greeks, or anyone who understands the basics of a broken balance sheet, accept the German insistence that the Greeks hive off €50bn of State assets, put them off-shore and sell them to the first vulture fund that rocks up? How can such financial nihilism make the balance sheet better? Explain to me how selling valuable assets at a deep discount in order to pay worthless liabilities at a steep premium can improve the balance sheet? Now let's consider the deal itself. It leaves Greece humiliated and with no autonomy. How much more will the economy contract? And when the economy shrinks, what happens to politics in Greece? Does it shift to the Left or Right? One thing is clear, it will hardly return to the centre. We know that the economy has shrunk every time there has been a bout of austerity and we know that every time it shrinks there is a move to the Left and the Right. Remember Syriza is the consequence not the cause of Greece's problems. Greece's problems - like those of Italy, Spain and Portugal - stem from decades of mismanagement and borrowing in the periphery and years of complacency and reckless lending from creditors. This brings us to what happens next on the periphery. Five years ago when the inflexible Trichet was at the helm of the ECB, I was sure the euro was on the verge of collapse. I was wrong because his successor Mario Draghi, sensing that the system was about to implode, started printing money and buying up the IOUs of the peripheral countries. He did this with German blessing because the Germans understood that although it can bully Greece, Italy and Spain are a different matter. Draghi and Merkel maintained the line that the euro was forever. This line has now shifted dramatically. The euro is now officially conditional. Countries that don't play ball with Germany will see their banking system used against their democratically elected politicians. The banking system is the soft underbelly and the Germans are prepared to orchestrate bank runs in member states to get their way. This is not only new, it is outrageous. Italy, Spain and Portugal are next. They all have enormous debts, deficits, insufficient growth and mass unemployment. They can't compete with the Germans - they don't have the industrial strength - and as a result, their living standards are rented not earned. They are large versions of Greece. The financial markets now know that the euro is conditional and understand that there is a significant political groundswell in Germany to push countries out if needs be. If central bank support for bonds of quasi-bankrupt countries that can't even balance their books day-to-day are conditional, then why hold them? The next time there is a slowdown in Europe, all these factors could come together in a perfect storm. In addition, with the British on their way out, the world will ask who is next? The world will be looking at us. What happens here, if all this happens when rates are rising because the overheating German domestic market demands it? Would you want to be a tracker mortgage holder in these circumstances? What do we do then? Will we be stranded in the mire of groupthink or will we use the next few months to come up with a Plan B?
i've said consistently greece doesnt matter but italy and spain are the ones to watch. portugal doesn't even matter. Italy caved 5 years ago and in effect ended democracy and appointed a government of tehcnical bureaucrats. italy can't keep going. it is all borrowing and smoke and mirrors. ............................................... the article above is not correct. the euro has only very recently tanked after quantitative easing finally started 5 years too late. they fought everything to avoid making a deicison. The euro is stupid. the ECB meeting, the finance ministers meeting the council meeting and the PMs meeting... half those having a say are not even in euro Is it any wonder the thing is a basket case, nobody can decide and they all look at each other.
Greece news live: Brussels prepares to release emergency loan to get Greece through July Alexis Tsipras's grip on power suffers a blow with 32 of his own MPs rebelling as the Greek parliament votes in favour of new austerity measure against a backdrop of violence on the streets of Athens please log in to view this image Greece news live: Brussels prepares to release emergency loan to get Greece through July Alexis Tsipras's grip on power suffers a blow with 32 of his own MPs rebelling as the Greek parliament votes in favour of new austerity measure against a backdrop of violence on the streets of Athens Greek debt joke in The Telegraph please log in to view this image
What a farce ! A government push through a bill that their own party votes against but gets through from the votes of the opposition. And to cap it all, the PM himself speaks against it. What chance that the Bill is just some paper exercise?
Tax evasion and corruption is a problem in Greece. Tax evasion has been described by Greek politicians as "a national sport"—with up to €30 billion per year going uncollected. Bailing them out this time is not going to be the end of the story. Some of the money is going to be mismanaged . Any money given to Greece is unsecured loan without Collateral.
No one disagrees that the measures are tough for the Greek people. It is like a family whose breadwinner has been made redundant and now has to survive on benefits. They'll have to cut on holidays and non essentials. Other relatives are going to have to help. It will be tough for many years. But the government has been appalling in terms of provding leadership: Is it really that awful to have to pay your taxes? Is it the end of the world if you can't draw your pension at 55 and imnstead having to retire at 67 like the rest of Europe)? Is it that bad if your pension is not 90% of your last earnings (which apparently was the case until austerity came in)? Is it that bad if shipping had to pay VAT? The reality is that Greece has fallen on hard times and their people will have to cut their cloth accoding to their means.
'Slap in face for Britain' Brussels insists taxpayers PAY their part of Greek loan BRITISH taxpayers could STILL be hit by an enormous bill over the Greek debt crisis - even if eurozone countries promise to pay us back if the stricken country defaults on a latest proposed loan. please log in to view this image GETTY People in Athens protest the bailout Greece agreed with the EU David Cameron today promised hard working Britons would not bail-out the stricken country. However, the UK is likely to be one of the guarantors for a fund with eurozone countries taking the hit in the likely scenario that Greece does not repay the loan. This morning, the European Commission announced it would be mobilising funds from the European Financial Stability Mechanism. An fund which Britain contributes millions of pounds to through the EU budget. The Commission ignored the Prime Minister's objections to using British taxpayer cash to keep the floundering Greek nation afloat. Leading Tory eurosceptic John Redwood has called the latest proposal to use UK collateral to prop up Greece an "absolute outrage." He blasted it as a "slap in the face" for the UK. Meanwhile Ukip said it shows Britain has "no influence in EU spending". Should the EFSM loan go ahead, the plans will force the British Government to stump up around €690m to help Greece avoid bankruptcy until the end of July. Ukip's finance spokesman Steven Woolfe said, even under a European Union (EU) promise of a payback for Britain, it "could not be trusted" and there was a real risk eurozone-states could backtrack. please log in to view this image EPA Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras said he did not 'believe' in the bailout deal he signed It shows the true face of how eurocrats treat Britain Ukip's finance spokesman Steven Woolfe He added even if the fund was repaid the UK could still be hit. That would come in the shape of a poorer credit rating from the international markets from which the fund will have to be borrowed. He added: "It shows the true face of how eurocrats treat Britain. "It also shows how we have no influence in the EU to how we spend our money when the EU will use all tricks in the book to protect what is now clearly a dead union." The Prime Minister spoke out strongly in the House of Commons today saying the Greek issue was a "matter for eurozone countries". His comments came after the European Commission (EC) proposals were revealed saying the fund containing British money could be used to prop up the stricken country. please log in to view this image PA David Cameron has promised hard working Britons would not bail-out the stricken country The proposed loan of around £5billion would come from the European Financial Stability Mechanism, of which Britain pays 14 per cent into. Speaking in Brussels this afternoon, EC vice-president Valdis Dombrovskis said use of the EFSM was "the best possible avenue" to bail-out Greece. "This is not an easy option, some member states have serious concerns," admitted Mr Dombrovskis. But he acknowledged that it was "not an easy option" and had sparked "serious concerns" among several EU states outside the single currency area. Mr Dombrovskis also put forward proposals that the EFSM could be paid back by a fund contributed to by only eurozones within three months, although this is yet to be agreed http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/59...tsh-taxpayers-pay-debt-George-Osborne?ref=yfp
Greek parliament approves next phase in bailout reforms Large majority of MPs including Yanis Varoufakis, the renegade former finance minister, approves further measures required to qualify for €86bn in loans Greece’s prime minister easily won a crucial vote on a third bailout programme for the debt-stricken nation early on Thursday, hours after the European Central Bank infused cash-starved Greek banks with further emergency liquidity. A total of 230 MPs backed the economic reforms programme demanded by Greece’s creditors, while 63 voted against the plan at the late-night vote. Alexis Tsipras again faced down rebels within his own party who oppose a third bailout. Thirty-six Syriza MPs either voted no or abstained, three fewer than at a similar vote last week. Yanis Varoufakis, the high-profile former finance minister, supported the measures. Last week he had voted against the first set of bailout conditions, including VAT rises and pension cuts, after resigning his post. But in this case, Varoufakis said, the specific measures being voted on included reforms he had previously put forward himself. The vote clears the way for Greece to begin formal talks with its lenders on a three-year package of loans that could be worth €86bn. Before the vote Tsipras had urged MPs to support the bailout, which will save Greece from bankruptcy and preserve its place in the eurozone. “We made difficult choices and now we must all adapt to the new situation,” he told MPs, repeating that he did not agree with many of the reforms but would do his best to implement them. Athens was thrown further emergency assistance when the European Central Bank (ECB) increased liquidity for Greek lenders ahead of the crucial vote. Advertisement
It's all been exposed for what it is. 80% of the last bailout went to European banks that hold greek bonds, including the ECB. Yes the ECB is giving money to Greece and gets money right back through credit payments. The Greek economy got about 12% of the bailout. Also, many of these banks are hovering around 6% coverage of exposure. It was 8% but it was lowered because banks could not meet the 8%. If a bank falls below 6% cover they are required to sell assets and that starts off a chain reaction because selling assets while generating cash will lower the % fo coverage banks have for their risky derivatives exposure. Greek bonds would have been worthless if Greece defaulted and put Euro banks below the 6% watermark, I reckon Deutche bank would have been and Germany was in no way ever allowing that to happen. Ireland's bailout saved that bank too. So Greece absolutely had to be given that money, 86bn as it stands, to save Europe's flimsy banking structure. Had Greece dropped out and defaulted, the European banking system would have got into a dominoe effect and collapsed. That's the reality, fact 100% Interestingly Deutchebank is the largest holder of derivatives in the world, I think it amounts to trillions. Several nations in Europe have been sacrificed to save that bank already including Ireland. Germany dominates Europe for the sake of Germany, all other nations are secondary considerations. This is the reality of the ****ing EU The derivatives market is worth many times the amount of actual cash that exists in the world today (and cash is many more times the actual tangible assets resources and minerals to back it up) and is many times global GDP. Modern banking is nothing but theft and fraud
Here is some simple childlike economics to explain inflation. You create your own economy. It has 4 apples. There is £4 in your economy. 1 apple = £1. What happens when you introduce 4 more pounds into your economy?
This simple (and simplistic) example leads to a fundamental economic truth: The apple will now cost more. Those with an apple can keep up. Those without an apple will need more money to get one. With QE and inflation, those with resources (equity, property) will keep up while those without will fall further behind.
Agree, and an apple will cost £2 obviously. But.. and here's the clincher. Inflation only ocurrs when the money filters through the financial system. The very first person that gets that extra £4 can buy 4 apples with it. Those down the road later can only buy 2 with the same £4. The banks being the ones who get full value and you and I get the devalued currency This is the issue with QE, when financial institutions are given a million in money, at almost 0 interest. That million is worth a million. Only when it is used in a transaction does it enter the system and only after the money filters through the system does it cause inflation. The banks and financial institutions get full value and we get less value thereafter. QE is theft. It was inevitable when money was detached from the gold standard. These days money is backed by nothing but the flow of more money. Turn off the tap and it all collapses. That is what theese bailout and QE are about That is why the rich have all their cash in assets because assets are not devalued by printing more money
