Off Topic Political Debate

No the Poles and Germans pay the same as the rest of us to use the autoroutes, although there is a long section of the A20 which is free. I do not know how to get out of the current mess despite trying to follow it in some detail. It is interesting to see that other countries such as Ireland, Italy and Portugal are now showing signs of good growth in their economies since they were bailed out and imposed austerity measures.
The current Greek government has shown how not to go about getting help from international markets. They made promises to their people that could never be achieved. Why go to your bank manager, ask for and get a loan, fail to repay it as agreed, then expect him to be sympathetic when you ask for more so that you can repay him? It defies basic logic.

 

The Greeks lied about their finances in order to get into the Euro. Baz managed to get through the FL fit person test. Not so simple as you would like to believe. I know from experience how to make a balance sheet look good for a bank and poor for the tax man. There is a middle route that keeps everyone happy. The EU operates on finding consensus between the countries that have freely joined, not imposing dogma that is the trademark of the UK political parties.

 

Agreed it defies logic but the bank manager should have looked at their credit rating and financial history. He would have lent them just enough to buy a moussaka.

 

Didn't both France and Germany adjust their finance figures (fiddle) to qualify for the euro. No the EU operates on individual states having referendums until they came up with the correct results for the bureaucrats.

There is not much goodwill or concensus between many of the euro member states at the moment, less when it all blows up next week.

 

Don't start me on how the French manage to get their dire finances through year after year. It has little to do with the EU, more to do with the incompetence of the present government. At least by having to apply for extensions to get the economy back on track it becomes more transparent just what a mess the country is in. Many comments about the Greek crisis suggest that until we move away from this regime we would be in the same state if the economy was similar in size

 

Merkel and Hollande are in complete disagreement tonight, both putting out statements which propose opposite views.

 

My sister in law has a Greek family they live in Mytilini. On a day to day level people are coping... but they just need the banks to open very soon. They believe the present Govt has deceived people and now the country is worse off than it was when they came in....

 

No prizes for predicting that Hollande and the socialists will be chucked out at the next election but I'm not sure the country is ready for a right of centre party that will actually reform the labour market, cut the red tape and encourage entrepreneurship. I well remember the previous reforms that Sarkozy promised when he was elected. He either did not have the courage or support amongst his party when the going got tough. His abuse of power through his lavish lifestyle also did not help.

How bad will things have to get before the people demand action? Unfortunately any policy that appears to have originated from the UK or USA will be condemned before it is even tried.

Frenchie, how does the average french person explain the UK's superior employment figures and growth compared to theirs?

 

Looking at things from the outside it is fairly clear that an extreme left wing government saying they could defy world economics was never going to succeed. The banks are unlikely to open soon despite the comments of the Prime Minister. They just don't have any money to hand out.
Reading today how bartering is becoming popular again. Fine if you have plenty of things to barter, but not so good if your chickens have stopped laying.

 

Frenchie, how does the average french person explain the UK's superior employment figures and growth compared to theirs?

They don't, because they do not like the pressure that the everyday working person is under. They value the family time that the system gives them. Maybe the UK is not thought of so highly because of the live to work or work to live expression. Expectations in the UK are so high about what should be delivered, fueled by Labour governments, that now it is hard to go back to sensible levels. I notice that Harriet Harmen today was saying that tax credits are too high and should be reduced. Of course the left wing would be leader JC disagreed.

 

I see France's former prime minister has called France "the sick man of Europe" and has advised that France should look to the example of Margaret Thatcher to see how to revive its economy.

I bet that went down a storm with the lefties!!

 

It has not been reported, so no storm.

 

this tit for tat politics it is just a game for politicians

 

There is a serious debate required in France to arrest its alarming decline, it is not a game.

 

In Asia.. it was called "the great game"

 

the play between the great powers

 

The problem here is that for many involved in this process the theme of aid for Greece is being used to mask another goal, namely further privatization. With the conditions being that Greece sells off its Airports, Seaports etc. in other words further assets which will cripple its economy even more. Even the funds raised by these quick fire sales would not be held in Greece ! The goal here appears to be nothing short of the complete destruction of national sovereignty - as part, presumably, of a more general privatization programme which paves the way for the private agenda of TTIP.

 

I think you are completely on the wrong track here. All the creditors are trying to do is to strengthen the greeks resolve to actually be serious about the necessary reforms required. There is no trust left between the two parties so the creditors have grabbed assets to ensure repayment.

It is no different anywhere else, in the UK Barclays had the deeds to all of my assets for 10 years against a business loan.
They had me by the balls even though my repayment record was good.

 

Surely it is commonly agreed that TTIP is accepted way forward for the market forces capitalism of Reagan/Thatcher?... which is what the present Tory govt espouses? Do correct me if I am wrong.

 

Are you denying that the rescue plan is linked to a privatization programme ? Greece is being gang raped here.

Whether these national assets are being held as collateral by the creditors on the one hand, or their privatization was an absolute condition on the other is a question which neither of us knows the answer to - unless you have access to info. which I don't. Privatization of its economy has,at least, been a critical part of the discussion up to now. Since so called 'austerity' measures have been brought in, at the expense of real investment, and the last 2 aid packages have not been for Greece (but rather to prop up banks) the Greek economy has shrunk by another 30%. When 'austerity' starts to eat into a countries infrastructure then that is the time to stop, because you are eating into its chances of ever standing on its own 2 feet again.