Toby signs for Spurs - official.
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Ehhh... this whole thing still makes no sense to me.
Let's just throw out the supposed Saints right to buy and Atletico's right to cancel.
Just pretend this is a straightforward purchase. I still can't understand why Atletico would be so determined to sell to Spurs when we would happily pay them more than 11.5m. Unless we don't want to pay that much... but then why wouldn't we pay that much? That's a good price.
Only thing I can think of is Alderweireld does not want to come here. In which case there is no point in dealing with us. And therefore Atletico either wanted the cash so they could buy someone else or they were worried that they couldn't move Alderweireld somewhere he'd be willing to go and be stuck holding the bag. So in their minds it was Spurs or bust.
But then, supposedly Alderweireld was perfectly happy... excited even, to come here. Maybe he changed his mind?!?
This is one of the odder transfer situations I've seen. Can't figure out why any of the parties are behaving quite the way they are.
Oh well, we'll be okay either way. I was not unhappy with Fonte and Yoshida as a CB pairing. And Gardos looked solid when he played, so CB is not a huge position of need for us. I mean, if we end up without Alderweireld this is an area we can and should look to improve, but what area isn't? Go with Fonte and Yoshida and put the extra 7-14m we just saved into an awesome DM or a really great striker or something. I think most of us going into the offseason felt like the odds were fairly strong we wouldn't end up with Alderweireld anyway, so no need to panic now.
Let's just throw out the supposed Saints right to buy and Atletico's right to cancel.
Just pretend this is a straightforward purchase. I still can't understand why Atletico would be so determined to sell to Spurs when we would happily pay them more than 11.5m. Unless we don't want to pay that much... but then why wouldn't we pay that much? That's a good price.
Only thing I can think of is Alderweireld does not want to come here. In which case there is no point in dealing with us. And therefore Atletico either wanted the cash so they could buy someone else or they were worried that they couldn't move Alderweireld somewhere he'd be willing to go and be stuck holding the bag. So in their minds it was Spurs or bust.
But then, supposedly Alderweireld was perfectly happy... excited even, to come here. Maybe he changed his mind?!?
This is one of the odder transfer situations I've seen. Can't figure out why any of the parties are behaving quite the way they are.
Oh well, we'll be okay either way. I was not unhappy with Fonte and Yoshida as a CB pairing. And Gardos looked solid when he played, so CB is not a huge position of need for us. I mean, if we end up without Alderweireld this is an area we can and should look to improve, but what area isn't? Go with Fonte and Yoshida and put the extra 7-14m we just saved into an awesome DM or a really great striker or something. I think most of us going into the offseason felt like the odds were fairly strong we wouldn't end up with Alderweireld anyway, so no need to panic now.
Spoken like a true football fan...when this version turns out to be wrong and he turns up in a saints shirt I will say the same
*sobs* no I mean it. He's injury prone and average *sniff*
Now if you'll excuse me I have to go eat a duty free size toblerone in the dark.
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There's the thing, though. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but to the best of my knowledge from everything that has been posted, we never met their asking price. When the missed deadline proved not to be the trump card we believed it to be, Spurs sorted out everything before we had so much as discussed personal terms with Alderweireld.
Completely agree about the last bit . I at one stage never thought he would stay . Seems he may well not , came close , but chose another team . Shame , we move on . Good luck to him . Not his or Spurs fault imho , just business .
Yeah, I think Alderweireld held all the cards. Still does.
IMO, Atletico has a somewhat reasonable argument that we had plenty of time to come to an agreement with Alderweireld and we never did. If he has no contract with us and does not want to play here, why is it their fault? You can't honor a transfer agreement if the player won't agree to transfer.
If we had come to terms with Alderweireld, then we could go to Atletico and open negotiations by saying "We've reached terms and are now exercising our buy option for 6.8m." Then maybe Atletico says "6.8? Get right out of town. Nah, we'll take our chances and buy him back and sell him to someone else." We up our bid, etc.
But they can't promise to sell us Alderweireld for 6.8m (or pay a penalty) because it's completely not up to them. Alderweireld has a say in it. So all Atletico can do is give us permission to talk to the player. Which presumably we had. And we did indeed talk to the player and try to convince him to sign, apparently to no avail.
But regardless of contract language, I think it pretty much comes down to if Alderweireld prefers to be here, then he'll be here. If not, then he goes to Spurs. And there is little we can do about, and really not a whole lot Atletico can do about it other than the two of us squabbling over whether AM has to pay us some cash.
Alderweireld at this point is more or less just strong-arming his way to his destination. He has already told Atletico he doesn't want to stay. And at this point Atletico has already gone in a different direction as far as their CB preferences. They are obviously willing to sell for 11.5m. I would assume we are willing to pay at least that amount, and probably not a whole lot more because hey, 12m is still better than 11.5m and Alderweireld wants us instead of Spurs.
But who knows? I'm sure there are some huge pieces of the puzzle still missing as to why things have arrived at this point. And whatever those things are, they could still play a role. I still think Alderweireld is in control here, but exactly what he wants is a mystery.
But anyways, we're not at fault here because we can't force Alderweireld to sign. Atletico really can't be blamed that much because they can't force Alderwiereld to sign either. Tottenham can't be blamed for being the player's destination of choice (if that is the case) and reaching an agreement with Atletico.
All that's left is a minor squabble over some monetary damages over an alleged breach. Which I'm sure can be easily worked out between the two teams.
It's just business, indeed.
IMO, Atletico has a somewhat reasonable argument that we had plenty of time to come to an agreement with Alderweireld and we never did. If he has no contract with us and does not want to play here, why is it their fault? You can't honor a transfer agreement if the player won't agree to transfer.
If we had come to terms with Alderweireld, then we could go to Atletico and open negotiations by saying "We've reached terms and are now exercising our buy option for 6.8m." Then maybe Atletico says "6.8? Get right out of town. Nah, we'll take our chances and buy him back and sell him to someone else." We up our bid, etc.
But they can't promise to sell us Alderweireld for 6.8m (or pay a penalty) because it's completely not up to them. Alderweireld has a say in it. So all Atletico can do is give us permission to talk to the player. Which presumably we had. And we did indeed talk to the player and try to convince him to sign, apparently to no avail.
But regardless of contract language, I think it pretty much comes down to if Alderweireld prefers to be here, then he'll be here. If not, then he goes to Spurs. And there is little we can do about, and really not a whole lot Atletico can do about it other than the two of us squabbling over whether AM has to pay us some cash.
Alderweireld at this point is more or less just strong-arming his way to his destination. He has already told Atletico he doesn't want to stay. And at this point Atletico has already gone in a different direction as far as their CB preferences. They are obviously willing to sell for 11.5m. I would assume we are willing to pay at least that amount, and probably not a whole lot more because hey, 12m is still better than 11.5m and Alderweireld wants us instead of Spurs.
But who knows? I'm sure there are some huge pieces of the puzzle still missing as to why things have arrived at this point. And whatever those things are, they could still play a role. I still think Alderweireld is in control here, but exactly what he wants is a mystery.
But anyways, we're not at fault here because we can't force Alderweireld to sign. Atletico really can't be blamed that much because they can't force Alderwiereld to sign either. Tottenham can't be blamed for being the player's destination of choice (if that is the case) and reaching an agreement with Atletico.
All that's left is a minor squabble over some monetary damages over an alleged breach. Which I'm sure can be easily worked out between the two teams.
It's just business, indeed.
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Woke up this morning to read the depressing news. Was going to make a comment but can see that Schad has pretty much summed up how I feel about this and I had written something earlier when thus whole thing kicked off.
Time to move on...
I always thought that Toby's wishes would be the trump card....though at the time I thought that would be in our favour. Obviously not now.....he was just a very polite boy.
And I bet he told Ron in his txt....thanks a lot, but I want to go to Spurs. Ron couldn't say that whilst Les was still negotiating. He never looked convincing in his press conference.
And I bet he told Ron in his txt....thanks a lot, but I want to go to Spurs. Ron couldn't say that whilst Les was still negotiating. He never looked convincing in his press conference.
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I don't buy this 'Toby wants to go to Spurs so, there's nothing we can do' talk. Oh it's true now, I don't doubt it. There's nothing that we can do now, but there was a time when we could have done. I believe that there was a time that Toby's mind was not set on a single target and we could have persuaded him to come here, but we left it too late.
Numerous reports from last season suggested that he's happy to stay a Saint, and Ron confirmed that reports. Ron wouldn't lie, so I believe that at a certain point Toby was content to stay with us. But in the meantime Atletico accepted an offer from Spurs and they then started negotiating with the player and thier negotiations came to an advanced stage, medical was done, wages agreed. At that point we finally realise we could lose the player and Les tries to make a deal. But we left it too late. Maybe a deal with Atletico could yet be struck, but Toby has already agreed to a move to Tottenham and in his head he's probably already used to the idea of playing for Spurs, and we really are not the proposition that can turn his head at this stage, as we can't offer anything more than Spurs. It's an opportunity missed.
I hold no grudges with Toby, but I want thim to have a ****e time at Tottenham.
As for us, we'll find someone better, as we always do.
Numerous reports from last season suggested that he's happy to stay a Saint, and Ron confirmed that reports. Ron wouldn't lie, so I believe that at a certain point Toby was content to stay with us. But in the meantime Atletico accepted an offer from Spurs and they then started negotiating with the player and thier negotiations came to an advanced stage, medical was done, wages agreed. At that point we finally realise we could lose the player and Les tries to make a deal. But we left it too late. Maybe a deal with Atletico could yet be struck, but Toby has already agreed to a move to Tottenham and in his head he's probably already used to the idea of playing for Spurs, and we really are not the proposition that can turn his head at this stage, as we can't offer anything more than Spurs. It's an opportunity missed.
I hold no grudges with Toby, but I want thim to have a ****e time at Tottenham.
As for us, we'll find someone better, as we always do.
None of us know what went on. I don't believe we did nothing, but whether we were messed about or Spurs offer attracted Toby/Atletico we will never know. Judging by Saints threats, I would imagine they thought they were still in the negotiating stage. Were we too slow or did we have no chance....again we will never know. Although a very good and versatile player, one player doesn't make a team. Onwards and upwards....no point in bearing ill will, although it would be nice if WHL burnt to the ground, Pochettino got eczema, and Toby developed ingrowing toe nails, but I am not bitter.
Unfortunately we have made ourselves look stupid. We have missed out on a player who we know can play a bit, now we have to find some one who will be a risk potentially, and might take a while to settle in. Amateurish! We tried to be too clever and it didn't work. Toby may have known this and didn't like it.
It would be nice for once if our better players actually wanted to stay. Alarming that they don't. Don't say jay signed, he did but he is also an unknown quantity following is injury
Agreed
I think our management team sat on their laurels being over confident and found Spurs sneeked in to pinch him then got all letigous to try and save their blushes.
Les should have had this deal sown up by the end of the season but didn't......I feel there has been a major cock up.
We've all done it but don't do it again
Am i missing something? Been monitoring this thread religiously, and i cant seem to see anything apart from a tweet by Sven Claes (who?!) to suggest its done. Maybe im clutching at stars but read quite a few reports last night and this morning quoting his father as saying there is no deal done.
Nothing official as such and there are reports saying nothing is done, but Sven Claes has been spot on with anything Toby related from the start of the loan (he broke the news i think.)
Could the poster who was with the Saints negotiating team speak up. The rest of us have to just shrug and move on.
The strange thing for me is if Toby had made his mind up to go to Spurs why didn't Atletico just say "sure, we accept your 6.8m bid Saints" then Toby just rejects us and there are no legal issues? Atletico may have been in the wrong (though I saw someone yesterday saying they had played a blinder), but I can't help but feel we aren't completely blameless in this ourselves
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