Off Topic Political Debate

It is not ok but i'm afraid life is not fair to the majority of the world's population. Our intervention, with good intentions, just made things worse for these people. The UK will not take responsibility by accepting migrants.

 

I think the issue is not accepting economic migrants.... for me...

The issue is global responsibility.

UK as a major power has responsibility.

 

Would some of the issues be solved if we took the "survival of the fittest" approach from nature? The problem with that is, with humans being so evolved, how we define the fittest? I would imagine that the definition for a tribe that lives in the jungle is different from that in the west, and even each individual would have different definitions.

 

This a very interesting concept and very debatable. I always made a play of this concept when teaching my Univ students...... questioning whether we are the cream of evolution etc. I remember, but too lazy to find the exact source, that Darwin did not ascribe to the concept himself but must have been associtated with it.

Good discussion here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_of_the_fittest


The concept is used as a rationale for justification of market forces type capitalism:

"It has been claimed that "the survival of the fittest" theory in biology was interpreted by late 19th century capitalists as "an ethical precept that sanctioned cut-throat economic competition" and led to the advent of the theory of "social Darwinism" which was used to justify laissez-faire economics, war and racism"

 

The problem with the idea of social Darwinism - ie. struggle and competition are the forces which ultimately drive history forward is that the idea has been used to justify Laissez Faire economics, Fascist ideology ie. the struggle for power being the fundamental driving force behind individual actions. It has also been used as a 'group' based ideology ie. by Nazism or colonialism to describe the struggle between races, and also by Marxism to describe class struggle as the 'motor' of history. The old 'botanist' has been used by all of these groups to justify something. The only great problem with any kind of Darwinism is that there are more cases of cooperation found in nature than of direct competition, and there are greater biological theories than his out there (see Kropotkin).

 

Yes.... that is it .... those who co-operate survive......

 

Interesting to see what will happen over the next few days in Greece. From over the channel it seems that Europe is split over what should be done. Should the Greek government just refuse to pay back what it has borrowed without any sanction? Has the minority of the population been brainwashed into believing that they could avoid paying back the loans? (Sorry back to percentages of the numbers who voted). Can the EU do the usual thing and find a compromise to support the country that is in a mess? The German and French leaders see things differently, so which side will gather the most support? There is some anger here at the amount of money the French government has lent, four times the amount lent by UK banks. We have little sympathy for Baz, but he has been discharged from his debts and is free to start taking others for a ride. Should we look at the Greeks differently?

 

I don't understand how you can borrow millions to support a certain lifestyle... and then refuse to pay it back....

 

As if he were not unpopular enough, and many would say he is totally out of his depth, Francois Hollande is under further attack tonight because he does not seem to know what to do over this crisis. He has been agreeing with anyone who puts forward a policy, even when they oppose each other totally. Maybe Angela Merkel will give him some backbone when they meet tomorrow.

In France the extreme left and extreme right are joining forces to support the Greek people, but from totally different perspectives. The right of the FN want it to create as many problems for the EU as possible, while The Left, a party to the left of the socialists seem to want France and Europe to simply say that Greece's debt should be written off, with the countries that have lent them huge sums taking the hit. The people in France are not prepared to see their taxes rise again to pay for the governments bad policies of handing out cash when the Greeks have asked for some more.

Marine Le Pen and Nigel Farage once again join together to make statements. Seems as if UKIP is really the NF in disguise.

 

Nigel Farage commenting on the difficulties of the EU does not make UKIP a different party. What he has said is in line with UKIP policy which has proved extremely popular with the British public. There simply is no evidence for your assumption.

 

Farage is not doing himself any favours by aligning with Le Pen.... unless of course that is where he sits ideologically.

Interestingly there is evidence that people who voted UKIP support BNP and EDL etc. There are even posters on this message board who have that inclination. Many people do. Perhaps it is best that they come out with their views so at least we know where we all stand.

 

Farage is clever enough to realize that he cannot be seen to get too close to the toxic policies of the FN which is why he will not join with that grouping in the EU. However time and again he aligns himself with them in statements making you wonder just where he does stand.

 

Indeed Yorkie - you only have to look at the complete collapse of the BNP at the May election where they polled less than half as many votes as the Monster Raving Loonies . Either people who vote BNP or similar have just disappeared off the radar entirely or they have fouind a new home in UKIP. To be absolutely clear though, that does not mean that all UKIP voters support BNP policies or, indeed, are in any way racist. It's certainly not the case in my opinion.

 

Policies on immigration, EU membership border controls etc are common to many political parties to varying degrees. It does not however mean they have the same ideals. Frenchie pointed out that the extreme left and right sometimes are seen on the same side.

 

yes this left right thing is interesting.. .as you know I cant abide it...... maybe if you go too far right you come out left.


I myself who has voted green for environmental and global policies.... really struggle with the economics of anti-austerity.....

 

Pertinent entertainment from a group of buskers! They're quite good actually!

https://video-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/h...=92a06c67b5d0d6ed1d1a40c8a6270715&oe=559C2BB9

 

Obligatory dog on a string!! Hopefully you told them to get a proper job. Are they declaring the income as well their benefits?

 

Like it !!!

 

They probably need a bar of soap rather than cash to spend on extra strong lager!!

 

I was approached by a French paysan the other evening to see if I knew the whereabouts of someone he wished to find. An elderly gent, probably in his late 70's or early 80's, he was ragged and generally unkempt. Seeing as he was looking for another agricultural worker I concluded he was still working. It seems that out here if you work on the land you are exempt from paying social security payments, but when you get to a normal sort of retirement age, you cannot, because there is very little from the government to support you. (About £60 pw)
With grants from governments the need for man power is reduced by machines, but there are still people around who now find themselves in a sort of no mans land because they were farm labourers. I used to see a man driving his 10 sheep along the lane. His covering against rain was a corn sack. His flock gradually reduced in number and he has now disappeared. Those of us with cars, TVs, computers etc should be aware that there is a world out there which is very different to ours.