Toby signs for Spurs - official.

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Beefy said:
Nope it points to AM going against a contract.
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Yeah, but you still have to prepare for that eventuality. We appear to be trying to nail Spurs on a technicality. The remedy for their breach is most likely for Spurs to pay us the 1.5m they owe us, plus possibly a fine on top of that. Which means that we still don't get Alderweireld.

The other thing is, it was always possible for Atletico to not have screwed up. They could simply have paid us 1 minute before close of business on June 31 and then sold Alderweireld to Spurs 1 minute after start of business on July.

If you have reason to suspect that Spurs are making an 11m bid, and you are willing to pay more, its up to you to make something that nets Atletico Madrid more than they would get from that Spurs sale, because they could have completely legally turned us down paid us off and sold to Spurs.
 
St Badger said:
Should he end up at Spivs, how confident are they that he will form a solid partnership with Verthongen? Yes they play together with Belgium, but Toby is their right back, not CB. They may not be compatible.
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They played together at Ajax.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
Yeah, but you still have to prepare for that eventuality. We appear to be trying to nail Spurs on a technicality. The remedy for their breach is most likely for Spurs to pay us the 1.5m they owe us, plus possibly a fine on top of that. Which means that we still don't get Alderweireld.

The other thing is, it was always possible for Atletico to not have screwed up. They could simply have paid us 1 minute before close of business on June 31 and then sold Alderweireld to Spurs 1 minute after start of business on July.

If you have reason to suspect that Spurs are making an 11m bid, and you are willing to pay more, its up to you to make something that nets Atletico Madrid more than they would get from that Spurs sale, because they could have completely legally turned us down paid us off and sold to Spurs.
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Really think this would be all over the press if AM didn't mess up?
 
St Badger said:
RK said, in his return to work interview, that Atletico were being difficult over the Toby transfer, which suggests that we had been pushing for the deal to be concluded, and hadn't fannied around, as some are suggesting.
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Yes, but it's their right to be difficult over it. They don't have to conclude the deal on our terms. If we think Alderweireld is worth say, 12m and would rather have that than the 1.5m we'd get for Atletico buying him back then we should have offered 12m.

Obviously, it's not quite that simple. There is no reason to pay 12m if you think you can get away with 10m or 6.8m. But that's how negotiations work. Sometimes you overplay your hand. It doesn't mean Saints are incompetent and there's no reason to melt down over it as by and large our record is good. It's entirely possible we thought we had a better alternative available as well. But if not, then this should probably be counted as a "mistake." People should just realize that every team makes them. I'm sure there have been other decisions that we don't know about where Reed and Co. would have liked a do-over.
 
By the sound of the Press Conference, we were happily negotiating away with AM - perhaps even saying "Hey keep hold of the 1.5M for now, it'll go in the transfer fund - and then we hear they've accepted some bid from Tottenham without even bringing us into the mix. Koeman said he's had a text conversation with Toby - and though he didn't share it, he smiled when he said it - and must have thought we were being treated fairly until this latest piece of news from Tottenham.

Oh, and why do people keep saying Saints are trying to nail Tottenham? This is about AM and Southampton. Not Spurs. There seems to have been some underhand stuff from Madrid - IMO.
 
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spacedsaint said:
By the sound of the Press Conference, we were happily negotiating away with AM - perhaps even saying "Hey keep hold of the 1.5M for now, it'll go in the transfer fund - and then we hear they've accepted some bid from Tottenham without even bringing us into the mix. Koeman said he's had a text conversation with Toby - and though he didn't share it, he smiled when he said it - and must have thought we were being treated fairly until this latest piece of news from Tottenham.

Oh, and why do people keep saying Saints are trying to nail Tottenham? This is about AM and Southampton. Not Spurs. There seems to have been some underhand stuff from Madrid - IMO.
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I hope not. If they offered to pay the £1.5m and we told them not to bother then we may be on shaky legal ground.
 
Beefy said:
Really think this would be all over the press if AM didn't mess up?
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Sure. Because we are accusing AM of breaching a contract. And it's holding up the transfer of an International player with some buzz around him. That's newsworthy even if the claims are invalid.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter. Atletico Madrid messed up by not paying us on time. However, it appears as though they COULD have paid us on time and sold to Tottenham. If you want the player, you don't count on Atletico Madrid screwing up. And, like I said the outcome of this in a court is unlikely to be that Saints get the player so if Alderweireld is who we really wanted we could have just paid them more than Spurs and this would be over.

But we still might end up with Alderweireld. And at a cheap price. The gambit could still work in some fashion. So there's that.

All I'm saying is that this is not something IMO where Saints were powerless to act or could not have foreseen a situation where we lose out on Alderweireld. What is happening appears to me the direct result of choices we have made.
 
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This basically says they haven't paid us yet.
 
Surely Koeman can have some pull on the player, he should get on the phone or even better see Toby in person and try to persuade him to wait for us to sort this **** with Atletico. We can't just hold onto what Toby said before the summer, and in the meantime send him a text or two.
 
Beefy said:
It's still a agreement between two clubs in words isn't it? Why would we think AM would go against it?
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I agree with hindsight its easier to comment and a lot of what we all write on here is conjecture and I would add should not be a blame culture either. That said, my comment was, fundamentally, we do not appear to have ring-fenced this purchase as perhaps we should have. I am not blaming Saint's; its an observation on your comment that this all stems from AM's lack of integrity, and my response is we could have played this all a little tighter not to have left an opportunity for someone else to slip in and cause this to happen.
 
Romsey_Saint said:
I agree with hindsight its easier to comment and a lot of what we all write on here is conjecture and I would add should not be a blame culture either. That said, my comment was, fundamentally, we do not appear to have ring-fenced this purchase as perhaps we should have. I am not blaming Saint's; its an observation on your comment that this all stems from AM's lack of integrity, and my response is we could have played this all a little tighter not to have left an opportunity for someone else to slip in and cause this to happen.
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But it shouldn't happen that is the point.
 
spacedsaint said:
Did you think we were on firm legal ground???
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Hard to say without knowing the exact details of our contract with Atletico. So far it sounds that we're technically in the right and can probably expect compensation at least if we go to court.

However, if Atletico said to us "We don't want to sell for the agreed fee. We'll transfer the money across now." we replied "No need to send us the money just yet." and are now saying "Ah. You didn't pay us on time!" then we'd get laughed out of court.

Editing to add: I don't believe that is what's happened
 
Beefy said:
But it shouldn't happen that is the point.
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Agreed and I also agree with you that Saints have 'played by the book' and some greedy souls in AM sought to make a quick buck on the side and this would never have happened if they had an ounce of integrity. From being my favourite Spanish side - they have slipped to the depths of that other Madrid team - whose name I refuse to write because I do not want to sully our Forum.
 
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