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Have you ever changed your mind about a driver?

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by schueysthegreatest, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. Delete Me

    Delete Me Well-Known Member

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    Lewis Hamilton has been overrated and underrated in many areas of his career but of no fault of his own. Of course he is in F1 because he's good driver and not because he is black, but on the media side of his over-inflated profile IS! because he is black, (hang on a second before you start bringing up remarks of something that i'm not).

    Lewis was not the first "aggressive driver" in F1 and he wont be the last that's for sure, so Lewis is nothing new to me. His skin colour gives the sponsers a "unique" driver to use in their attempt to reach more people, it's not Lewis' fault, it's how they do things, he sticks out more than the other 23 drivers and can generate more fans from the same racial backround easier.
    I'm not saying all black people never gave a ****e about F1 because that is incorrect and wrong, but Lewis makes people interested to see, (the first successful black driver in F1) or ( F1 isn't white supreme anymore) that's how they draw you in by marketing him like he is some sort of demi god. The world is a very sad place to use techniques like this, but it's being doing to Lewis.

    It could be the same thing seeing a white person get gold in the 100m sprint, his "unique difference" makes him stick out more than the other runners that would mostly be black, it's sad but true and that's how they catch your attention, it's instinctive. If you were in Tesco's looking at products that all looked the same, 9/10 you will look at the thing that is sticking out most. Lewis sticks out, but it's not his fault.

    Take Tiger Woods for instance one of the best players in golf history, just like Lewis in F1. They both have amazing strengths in their sport and will make mistakes like any other person would do. But what makes them earn more money or get more sponsers than other drivers/golfers? Who have achieved similar feats at winning Majors or WDC's through their careers. It's because the sponsers heavily invest in them for the "unique" profile they have and not just 100% they are the best...

    With this subject on Lewis being black is the last time I would rather talk about it because it leaves a bad taste in my mouth on how much manipulation on Lewis' profile is being used in F1 and other sports, so I want to leave it there.



    Lewis' lower series has also been blown out of proportion. The first thing I hear regarding Vettel vs Lewis in lower Formula, is that he got crushed in Formula 3 by Hamilton, even if the facts point that he was given the best car (not lying), the most money (again not lying) and unlimited testing (yet again not lying). All the while they missed the fact that Sebastian was in his rookie year, in a worse off team and he was still ranked 5th over that year, just like Lewis did the year before with the same support he got when he dominated.
    They will also bring up that Sebastian can't! and never will be a "dominant" force in F1 because he never dominated like Lewis did and just left Formula 3 to F1, coming second to Paul. This is because the rules changed after Lewis left (and in fact the main reason they did), making it an even more "equal" playing field for the slower teams for the first time, which Lewis never suffered unlike Vettel and Di Resta did.

    That year they also restricted testing to stop the bigger teams dominating as much (which Lewis never had). 1st to 8th after the first race would be reversed for the second race, making it even harder to dominate (which Lewis never had). Sebastian was the only driver that year able to win back to back for the year, against the likes of Kamui, Buemi, Di Resta who are all in F1 now, all of them maybe heading for bigger teams in the future. They also don't mention that Paul was driving in F3 longer than Seb, he tested numerous times before the season even started and had a head start which Sebastian didn't.

    Points for race 2 were also modified from the old system which Lewis had, instead of the old: 10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1 it was now 6,5,4,3,2,1 and 7th-8th got nothing, meaning the people who did well in the first race were to be royally shafted for the second and would be punished if they didn't try to push. Qualifying 2 was also scrapped with the bonus points that came with them, race 1 would decide the grid for race 2.



    We all hear about how Lewis went up from the back up to second in his GP2 day at Turkey after he span out, but while looking deeper into Sebastian's profile, he once went from 24th to 2nd at Zandvoort on a wet track with slicks, in F3 and he almost won, finishing 6 tenths behind first place (Charlie Kimball, started 11th). And people say he cant overtake...

    Regarding Lewis' "mad" overtaking skills:

    [video=youtube;xjotF2Bwbmg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjotF2Bwbmg[/video]

    Yet I see no video of Sebastians skill at Zandvoort from 24th to 2nd, again the media spinning things.



    (Back to F3)


    Vettel also faced more competition in his second year of Formula 3 than Lewis ever did in his. Sutil was the only challenger that got close to him all through Hamilton's winning season in the same car, yet 4 years on he is being challenged and beaten in almost every area to Paul.

    Sebastian haters also fail to bring up the fact that he was doing other series apart from Formula 3, unlike Paul who would be 100% focused on it. He was a test driver for BMW, while also doing Formula Renault and that his finger was almost sliced of in the middle of the season from debris, nearly ending his career. A few weeks later he was back racing in Formula 3 and did the back to back win at Nurburgring while not being 100% fit.

    I also don't understand the hype of the GP2 series which Lewis won in it's second anniversary, a pretty unknown and new series when he entered, all set up by Bernie and Flavio to spot talent and make money of it. He only went up against Piquet, Premat and Glock as main threats, where are they now? 1 is in Virgin racing...

    I can also shed light why Lewis cannot perform to his 2007 rookie invincibility form, that "beat" Alonso. It might have to do with the fact that traction control was banned after the 2007 season and we all know what computer games are like with traction control on, easier... So could be a reason why he didn't make many mistakes that year.

    They also fail to bring up that Alonso was brought up with the Michelin tyre for 5 years and used Bridgestone for the first time in his F1 career at McLaren, yet Lewis used bridgestones in his GP2 career. Look how long it takes modern F1 drivers to get used to the Pirelli's.

    They don't tell you about that on the BBC do they?


    Lower Formula records is a load of bollox and isn't a foundation on how their F1 career will turn out. Same thing is for Lewis, he had the drive, skill and the big money backing him to get his records. Sadly people expect him to repeat it all the time when in fact they don't know Lewis was a lower formula Schumacher, getting all the support and equipment he needed to win everything.

    What I'm getting across while posting this, is that my view has changed for Lewis in the sense I feel sorry for him. He has to always repeat his maximum ability like a computer now and if he doesn't he gets destroyed for it.


    P.S, I DON'T WANT THIS PUBLISHED OVER THE WHOLE WEBSITE, ONLY HERE WITH THE F1 FANS SINCE THEY KNOW WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET ACROSS.
     
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  2. u408379965

    u408379965 Well-Known Member

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    Three immediately spring to mind:

    Hakkinen: Couldn't stand him when he was winning, mainly because I was a Ferrari fan. I was young then which is my only excuse. I used to claim his pass on Schumacher down the Kemmel straight was cheating, using a backmarker to gain an unfair advantage I used to say, but it was purely down to bitterness and the petulance of youth when my team wasn't winning. Now I acknowledge it as one of the greatest opportunist overtakes I've ever seen, and also what a quality driver he was.

    Hamilton: With Hakkinen it was more a case of me changing, with Hamilton I feel it's more a case of him changing. I couldn't stand him when he first entered the sport, he came across as brash and arrogant and I felt his driving was very dirty at times. To compound this he had ridiculously obsessive fans, who completely exaggerated his skill and would laud relatively straightforward overtakes (some of the Kers ones for example) as brilliant, and made him out to be some kind of saint. Even after the "lie-gate" thing he was painted by his fans as the victim. I feel towards the middle and end of '09 he became more and more mature though, both on and off the track (still has the occasional red mist moment though). I quite like him as a driver now, but still find myself occasionally wanting him to fail just to keep the fan boys in check. :D

    Raikkonen: Was a massive fan from his Sauber days to his title winning season. Once he got the title under his belt though he became lazy and disinterested and it used to frustrate me immensely to see him wasting his talent. Luckily I'd taken a shine to Vettel so there was a driver for me to immediately switch allegiance to.


    Do Ferrari count? Grew up supporting them in the Alesi/Berger days for no real reason. I knew nobody else who supported them and knew nothing of their history. Supported them until midway through Schumacher's reign of dominance when I became disgusted by the treatment of Rubens. The flashpoint was France '02 when they left him on the jack on the grid so Schumi could win the title that weekend (even though it was halfway through the season).
     
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  3. I really had trouble finding Jenson Button's attitude in his final two years with BAR acceptable. If members will recall, he was ' farmed out ' by Williams with a return to them in 2006. In 2004 Jenson was so keen on rejoining Williams a year earlier that in August, he all but walked out of BAR which was then run by Dave Richards of Prodrive. The Contracts Recognition Board ruled that he had to remain with BAR for another year. Forward wind a year on and with Williams looking likely to be without BMW engines, Jenson decided he didn't want to go back to Williams after all. All this wanting to jump ship and then refusing to abide by existing agreements left him looking as not an ideal driver to have in one's team. However I must say I have nothing but praise for the way he has conducted himself as a world champion. I find Jenson Button a true delight and he has become one of my favourite three drivers currently in F1. His teammate could learn a lot by the new-leaf Jenson Button.

    I enjoyed Michael Schumacher's rise in F1. Right from the start there was something special about him. I thought that he duly deserved the crown in 1994 well before Adelaide and the showdown at the final GP of the year was only brought about by the FIA banning him for two races following the Silverstone debacle. I thought his driving in 1995 was even better especially as the Benetton was nowhere near as fast as the Williams. In Michael's hands the story was a different one. Through most of the decade I rather overlooked most of Michael's on track behaviour. Then came Year 2000 when in his fifth season for Ferrari and without a crown since 1995, he rather introduced the startline chop which seemingly the FIA allows.... if you do it only once that is. I think once is once too many. Since Y2K I had begun to look at Michael Schumacher rather differently and revisited Adelaide 1994 and Jerez 1997 from a different viewpoint.

    I never rated Damon Hill in his driving years, probably because I felt he had won a lottery ticket by slotting into first, the No 2 ( or should that be No 0 ) seat at Williams in 1993 and then gifted with an overwhelmingly superior car, he seemed to take an eternity to secure the 1996 title and was overshadowed in many ways by a younger Jacques Villeneuve who was in his maiden year in the sport. His time at Arrows and Jordan left me quite unimpressed too. However looking at him with more mature eyes I now find Damon to be a true gentleman and wish I had come to appreciate him more when he was driving.


    Three wrongs don't make a right but I hope I got it right in the end ;)
     
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  4. Bergkamp a Dutch master

    Bergkamp a Dutch master New Member

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    who said every article has to be a book?
     
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  5. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    Silver:

    That's a mega-post and I think your first chapter is very interesting indeed. There are some truisms in there that most people feel they should steer clear of.


    +Rep
     
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  6. Delete Me

    Delete Me Well-Known Member

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    Yeah sorry cosicave, still editing it etc...
     
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  7. Kyle?

    Kyle? New Member

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    I used to have an issue with Damon Hill, but i can't figure out why. Going back and watching old races, he was a gentleman then as well. What was wrong with me?
     
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  8. 2xwdcslayer

    2xwdcslayer Active Member

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    I have found it very hard to like Alonso over the years especially when he was at Mclaren. He seems to be a man who feels teammates should be subservient to him and when challenged like he was by the rookie he showed how poor a sportsman he was with his whinging and expecting preferential treatment, thanks to Ron Dennis a fair playing field was allowed at Mclaren in 2007.

    And then there was poor old Massa in Germany 2010, absolutely disgusting, and he still was trying to undermine Lewis with the rule braking Ferrari in 2010. I was so glad when he failed to pass Petrov in the final race of the season, and we all remember the arrogance with him waving that silly fist of his after the race because he thought Petrov should of moved out of his way, he did the same thing with Lewis in Indianapolis in 2007 and got put in his place that day.

    But this season Ferrari has made a slow start and are well behind Mclaren and Red Bull in the wcc, but i am well impressed with Alonso's attitude even though his car hasn't been has competitive as the Mclaren's and the Red Bull's in the early part of this season. He seems to be helping Ferrari's improvements and looks like he is doing a Schumi regards kudos at Ferrari. The irony is that the rookie which i admired in 2007 is now becoming like the Alonso of old with his whinging and petulance because his car is not what he expects, he needs to take a leaf out of the Alonso of 2011 book regards getting your head down and getting on with your job no matter what the state of your car.
     
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  9. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    I've just realised I've not provided my own answer to the original question of the thread.

    I've been racking my brains for a positive: one where I've ended up liking someone I previously didn't, but I confess that I just cannot think of anyone who fits the bill. I suppose the problem is that I start out liking everyone, and my first assessment usually seems to hold out. Therefore, there's only one driver I can think of who I have thought progressively less of over the years. It is someone I've met on plenty of occasions at various functions and race meetings; and it is one of our own, home-grown heroes, whom I admired greatly with his thrilling wheel to wheel stuff, and I believe he was unlucky to only claim one World Drivers' Championship - which is also true for Damon Hill, who by my reckoning is a Double World Champ! He was a great driver and he deserved better statistics, yet I have come to like him less and less over he years as I have learned what makes him tick. I am trying to think of a way of concealing Nigel Mansell's name amongst the small print of this comment, by avoiding those two words as the last here because I feel it is perhaps no fault of his own that he is a self-centred egotist who finds it almost impossible to praise anyone else. And strangely enough, whilst one may occasionally hear what sounds like genuine praise for others far from our British shores, the closer to home they are, the less likely they will meet with his approval.

    So there you have it: he's a good guy but I've gradually gone off him and there's no need to repeat his name.
     
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  10. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I? Forum Moderator

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    Cosi, is it ever since the tash dissappeared?
     
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  11. Kyle?

    Kyle? New Member

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    Self centered egotist? That could be me!
     
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  12. Masanari

    Masanari Active Member

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    I have a new avatar for you Cosi.

    please log in to view this image


    Enjoy!
     
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  13. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    I never liked Mansell, dunno why, probably his monotonic whines, but one driver i did change my mind on was Senna, I thought he was an arrogent twat, but then I realised he was a really only an uncompromisiong racer.
     
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  14. Foaad

    Foaad New Member

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    Wow, nice info SilverArrow, but out of curiosity are you an F1 journalist or just a very keen follower. Some of the stats are quite interesting, particularly that he won back to back inspite of starting last, as the grid reversal seems to imply, thus showing that he fought through the field to win.
     
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  15. cosicave

    cosicave Well-Known Member

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    Hahahahahaahahaahahaahahahaahahahaahahahaah… that's given me the biggest laugh of today Mifune; so thanks!!!
     
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  16. Bergkamp a Dutch master

    Bergkamp a Dutch master New Member

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    NM. yeah -exciting driver, boring interviewee...
     
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  17. Delete Me

    Delete Me Well-Known Member

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    Very keen follower, Cosicave has to tell me off sometimes :(
     
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  18. Benny

    Benny New Member

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    Thanks : )

    and silverArrow I know what your saying with your points all of them fair, and i know what you mean about the race thing.

    The main point i was making was it just really annoys me when people think Lewis was given a free ticket to F1 when he wasnt, not even close!

    One person who i did really want to see given his chance in F1 was Gary Paffett. Real shame he was never given a race seat.
     
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  19. Bergkamp a Dutch master

    Bergkamp a Dutch master New Member

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    'i did really want to see given his chance in F1 was Gary Paffett' - well he's 30 - so time is running out fast.
     
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  20. Delete Me

    Delete Me Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry my last post, it wasn't directed at you, but more of a "follow up" since I agreed with mostly what you said.

    Yeah such a shame about Gary. Don't think he'll ever get his shot now...
     
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