I can only speak for myself yet you speak for what all Christians 'supposedly' think or do with regard to the Bible, as one example - that sounds fair. If a man with a weapon says - I'm killing you because you don't believe in my God, I see it as no different to a man with a weapon saying - I'm killing you because you do believe in a God. Both have happened [the second on a far, far greater scale btw]. To somehow see virtue in not believing in a higher being, isn't logical. It could be argued there's maybe no virtue either way, yet you think your way is far better. I'm not that arrogant
Actually it isnt. It's politics. It's a power struggle based on a whole host of reasons including religion but far more on geopolitics, dictatorships and economics. Religion is just a simplistic view I'm afraid.
Far better, far more realistic, far more grounded in reality. You are not arrogant tho JB, I will give you that, we have been on opposite sides in 2 debates in recent times (John Barnes and now this) and I must say that even though we have been in opposing sides, I have actually found it quite enjoyable, you make good points and kept the debate civil (maybe even more so than I ) so my friend.
Ok mate, so the Sunni's vs Shi'ites, arabs vs jews and the march of ISIS across the region doesn't have religion at it's core? Whatever you say
By the way I'm amazed at how little ppl understand tribal culture in the middle-east. It is something that has existed for thousands of years but is just as strong in the arab world today! I'm going to quote academia to help here... Arab culture addresses security through "balanced opposition" in which everybody is a member of a nested set of kin groups, ranging from very small to very large. These groups are vested with responsibility for the defense of each member and responsible for harm any member does to outsiders. If there is a confrontation, families face families, lineage faces lineage, clan faces clan, tribe faces tribe, confederacy faces confederacy, sect faces sect.Conflicts within the Middle East cannot be separated from its peoples' culture. Seventh-century Arab tribal culture influenced Islam NOT the other way round. Even today power in places like Libya, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, (Afghanistan although technically not arab) you have to mediate through tribes. Now before anyone says these tribes are religious, as qualified above these tribes would still exist, would still be just as powerful AND would still be involved in conflict withour religion bcos it's NOT religion that drives them. I realise this doesnt fit neatly into the beliefs of the extremist views of the atheists on here but thems the facts. Arabs are bunch of complex fcking fruitcakes...and they dont need religion to help them be so
Back at ya. You mentioned the John Barnes thread a while ago, I honestly don't remember who was on there and who said what other than nobody agreeing with me - well maybe Page and a few non-committals
So as I said, you don't know what you mean. Statements like "religion at its core" mean very little. Is it one part of a much wider and complex situation in the middle-east? Yes. Is it the driving force, ie. would the same conflicts not exist without religion? The answer is no. But (and I honestly don't want to be patronising here) you have to have understanding of the region and external factors that influence it to understand this. The trouble is most living in the west (and it seems on this thread) rarely do.
The 'not' in that statement makes it read as you're saying that the same conflicts would exist even without religion. Is that what you meant?
Anyone who thinks the middle east **** pile is caused by religion needs their heads checked, they are reiterating what Tony Blair is saying and that in itself is ridiculous. Destroying secular governments, and creating power vacuums and invading and supporting one sect is what causes the problems we see today. All religions were fine in Libya before Gaddafi fell, now it is one religious extremist group, in Iraq, one sect was selected to rule leaving the other out in the cold. The Syrian rebels are religious extremist and the Assad government is secular. Why does one think the "rebels" supported by the west, massacre christian jew and islamic alike. In Iraq Jews Islamic and Christians all lived together, in Palestine before Isreal they all lived together. See a common denominator? Western influence, regime change and invasion. Twice as many people have been killed by right wing extremists in America than by Islamic extremists since 9\11. A little nugget the media doesn't mention Muslims in the UK face more hate crimes than any other religious group. If you had the US invade the UK tomorrow and blow it to bits, and just pull out after destroying everything, you'd have a war between yourselves afterwards to see who got to rule, and the fighting groups would gather as religious groups in all likelyhood.
Pretty sure I have heard you use that one before and in all likelihood it means nothing more than islamic extremists haven't killed that many people (relatively) in the US since the 3000 odd they killed in 9/11. It sounds like a wonderful headline for some kind of PR campaign but it would be interesting to see how you (or whoever you C+P'ed it from) got to that conclusion.
Its true, there are far more right wing nutjob terrorists in the US than Jihadists. 48 lives have been taken by right wing terrorists since 9/11. Only 26 lives taken by Islamic terrorists in the US since 9/11. The American right wing is a problem.....a big problem, for the world. Of course according to right wing ****tard media outlets like Fox news, only muslims can be terrorists. If you are a white Christian, you cannot be a terrorist apparantly When its a white Christian (like Dylan Roof), then its a lone wolf nutjob who acted out of mental health problems. When its a brown skinned muslim, its a HUGE conspiracy that could involve people in your VERY STREET and YOU are next!! Cos we're ****ing 'murica baby and we dont take any ****
My bold and underline Since 9/11 ffs, why cut off at that point? its a bit like a "since premier league began" stat. But anyway not saying american right wing isnt a problem, extremists of any kind are a problem just that you can do funny things with stats and labels so lets look at who released those stats and why.
9/11 is used as the kick off point because a) It was the biggest terrorist attack in US history and b) Its when a lot of the ignorant world was introduced to terrorism. We were used to it for years over here with the IRA. But America had a rude awakening, thats why its generally regarded as the benchmark.
Any country has the right to defend itself, even if it means going outside its own territory to do so.. ISIS are attacking innocent people while politicians who are making decisions are not reachable.. 7/7 really scared me, my route to work was affected, fortunately I got to work before it happened. We were asked to go home early and I had to walk for more than five miles before I can get a bus. I cannot even communicate with members of my family because of network problems. UK has been a very accommodating country unfortunately some people are not seeing it that way.
Roof isn't a Christian though, he went to a Bible study class to murder the Christians who were in there. And he also isn't a right wing extremist, his actions weren't politically motivated. An example would be Glenn Frazier Cross who attacked a Jewish Community Centre killing two and then went to another Jewish centre and killed another person, and when he was arrested, shouted heil Hitler.
Right Ok so for the purpose of getting the headline we want we will set the data point just after a massive event that had a huge influence on what we are measuring? The act of setting the data point there shows they wanted that headline, so what else have they done with the data? Not saying we can't believe it, as the gun law thread shows, there are plenty of loons shooting each other over there just is seems a bit suspicious and convenient to me.
No...... Without 9/11 we likely wouldn't BE here analysing the data in the first place. When you think of terrorist attacks, 9/11 is the Real Madrid of Terrorist attacks.
