Off Topic Political Debate

I don't have a problem with stopping economic immigration of the sort you are talking about

I do however consider it important to separate that out from the terrible many abuse people are seeking to escape from in wartorn and failed states. My rels live in Lesvos and they are getting refugees from Syria landing almost every day now. What do they do??

Accepting all in is not an answer. As a world power which in the past had colonial interests in many of these countries, and fleeced them of their raw materials and used their chap labour, we do have some responsibility.

As a member of the human race we all have responsibility for our planet and those that inhabit it. It is not as simple as pulling up the drawbridge etc.

 

Debatable..... of course you are counting those who vote for a particular party under the present voting system

 

The majority of voters in England voted for the Tories, this overwhelmingly produced very more tory MP's than alternatives.

 

The present system will not change for the foreseeable future so is the only one that matters.

 

I guess the challenge to you then is to accept a Govt has to govern for all not just the % who vote for it. A government is for the country not its own political party... even more important in a multi-party system.. .which is why Cameron has to go along with a referendum he... and the majority I expect in his party... will disagree with.

There are no hairs to split on this one surely.... a fact... a Government has to rule for its entire population for the best for all.

 

An illegal immigrant is illegal because they have bypassed the accepted legal route for entry into the UK, it should be quite simple to understand.

 

No government will satisfy some elements of society but this government has a clear mandate which the electorate clearly chose. I believe if it can lose the 'toffs' image it can govern for a very long time.

 

Absolutely Yorkie. In a way it should now be easier as I'm sure the old "battele lines" are far less pronounced than they used to be. Cameron's voters will have come from all sections of society so screwing over one demographic becaue they wouldn't vote for him anyway is not really an option. He talks about creating a fairer society for all - will be interesting to discover a) what he means and b) how he will deliver.

 

and of course 10 minutes later they apply for asylum and then can no longer be called illegal..... so where does that get us...

 

The discussion seems to be drifting back to party debate again? How come it always does these days ?

 

I wonder

Here's an example of someone who probably isnlt intending to govern his country for the benefit of all its people...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33279933

 

Fairly difficult to have a political thread which avoided party politics I would have thought!

Perhaps the outcome of the election is too horrible for some to acknowledge?

 

I think everybody has acknowledged and, indeed, accepted it. That doesn't mean that a) we have to like it or b) that the victors need to remind us of what is patently obvious every 10 minutes or so

Just answer this one - if Labour had won the election would you have turned round and said "well it's the will of the people so I just have to accept it and won't moan about it"? It would be good if your response isn't - "well that's a hypothetcial question so no need for me to answer it!"

 

The answer to your question is yes. Fortunately the electorate were not so gullible as too elect the incompetent Miliband / Balls package. It is strange how all of the prospective Labour leader candidates now agree how wrong these failed politicians were!!.

 

Can anyone tell me why the English have an obsession with immigration ? The numbers of EU nationals in the UK is around the same as for British people in other EU countries - about 2.5 million in both directions. The percentage of Europeans claiming any sort of benefits is much lower (per head) than amongst either the native born population, or the immigrant population from other countries. In 2014, 32,000 people tried to claim asylum in the UK. For Germany the figure was 203,000, for Sweden 81,000, and for Italy 65,000 - even little old Hungary had 43,000 claimants. The foreign born population of the UK is also less (per head) than that of other countries. So where is the problem ? If the foreign population is unevenly balanced ie. concentrated on places like London, Birmingham etc. then whose fault is that ?

 

The British people should have a right to decide on what they think is an acceptable level of immigration. They do not need any comparison with other countries that make their own decisions. Fortunately most of us, including most MP's, do not live in areas of the UK dominated by foreign migrants.

 

I think it is a red herring. The problem is 'out there'.

Just about every economist will tell you that immigration is a net gain for the country. After that the arguments will just melt away. They don't take people's jobs.. .just the jobs others wont fill... without expatriate workers our NHS and care services would fail. I understand the NHS is now having to recruit in Australia for the London Ambulance Service for paramedics. They don't claim significantly more benefits. There is more benefit fraud per capita amongst British national claimants than immigrants etc etc

Maybe better to ask how come we cant train and retain enough doctors, nurses and social care workers.... and why people wont work for zero hours (mmm....) contracts in the manual trades. My mum lived in Lincs and there are many overseas workers there doing the jobs the farmers cant get locals to do... and then you see the locals on TV saying these foreigners are taking their jobs.

Is it the insular nature of Britain and British society?

 

I suppose we could ask why you are obsessed with an apparent obsession about immigration Cologne (I am taking the piss btw) It's natural though - if people perceive that they are getting a bad deal because those from other countries are getting jobs, school places, jumping ahead in the doctor's queue etc. etc. then they're going to lash out.

On the "whose fault is it?" question - well it certainly isn't the fault of people who live in the areas that are unevenly balanced. For the record it doesn't bother me as I'm the son of an immigrant myself but I can see why some perceive it as a problem. whether they are right or worng.

Finally, it isn't just the English. People living in England? Maybe - but it's not the same thing.

 

The locals will not take these jobs because they can live on benefits from the state. Immigration into Britain should be on a needs basis, similar to the Australian system. Unfortunately membership of the EU prevents us from operating this sensible system.

 

I do not alogether disagree here - however the problem is that the theme of immigration is being branded together with that of the EU. Whereas the reality is that this supposed 'immigration' theme would not go away if Britain left the EU - the themes are not connecte

Does Britain have jobs or resources free to cope with 2.5 million returning Britons (from the EU) - or 6 million from the whole World. Which might just be the consequence if other countries adopt the policies you are suggesting.