The above looks a bit like a piss take, and to a degree it is, but I think it has a bit of merit. At one time or another most of us have sided with one great over another, without having any real proof to back up our claim. It's all subjective. A lot of people will support Frankel's ranking as the best ever, others will have nothing to do with it, maybe pointing to some other wonderful horse from the past, but is it fair to say that he was a superior animal to "Himself?" Different disciplines of course, but that's not the point here. Were either of the two the best ever, and if so, what made one superior to the other?
Frankel was the best I've seen over 8 and 10 furlongs. Arkle on the other hand didn't win 5 Gold Cups and a Grand National like Golden Miller, so he falls just short
Arkle had a top notch career but just imagine if he had been born 30 years later and barned with Mr Henderson. Cor blimey makes you wonder doesn’t it... Frankel was one of the very best Flat performers I’ve ever seen but still that slight twinge remains re him – never ran outside this small EU member state.
Did he really need to run outside of the UK though Barney? Afterall the highest level of turf racing in the world is here in England. He could have gone to France which is the only other country that has decent turf horses, but he did beat French G1 winners who came over here to face him. Crabbing a turf horse for not leaving England is a little like crabbing an American dirt horse for not leaving America
And was kept away from the only one that might have beaten him, and also only allowed to take on Dunkirk over 3 miles when Dunkirk was a specialist 2 miler. I sometimes wonder if horses kept unbeaten, by avoiding possible threats of defeat, manage to get their horses over rated by not being exposed.. Would Ribot have been considered a great if kept to racing in Italy? No chance. As regards Frankel, we can only enthuse over the manner of his victories. But, however easily he won, how did his victims compare with other past greats or near greats? It's almost impossible to compare horses of different generations. Even the fact that horses beat horses that previously won this and that doesn't prove anything if the this and that victories were over horses that weren't rated up with the best. Nothing should stop us enjoying the horses we live to see and can talk about to our grand children. They will be the Greatest.
More to that Ron, are some horses downgraded because they continued after their peak like Sprinter Sacre and the Hunter that is Ling Run.
That’s a very narrow minded view, Shergar. Cor blimey you’ll be breaking into a verse of ‘Rule Britannia’ next. I think it’s very, very debatable that the best racing, turf, or otherwise is in Britain anymore. I would imagine that up to half a dozen countries would have something to say about that. And if you go by prizemoney Britain is way, way down the old pecking order. But even if you are indeed correct I don’t think that makes a jot of difference as surely to prove yourself the best you not only have to win at ‘home’ but also ‘away’ on foreign shores – I came, I saw, I conquered and all that. To put yourself at a disadvantage and still emerge victorious is surely what top level sport is all about and how champions are identified. Since I’ve been watching racing some of the best Flat performances I’ve witnessed have been from animals who have done just that such as Arazi (the performance that first got me really interested in racing. Remember watching this in short trousers and my monocle popping out so amazed and shocked was I by his burst of speed – I still think it the most remarkable and brilliant thing I have ever seen on the level), Raven’s Pass (his Breeders Cup win made his reputation), Midday in the BC, Media Puzzle Down Under and Sea The Stars in the Arc. Frankel has an unbelievably reputation and record but wouldn’t it have been even better had he won overseas??? As to which race could he have run in. The list is almost endless as the venues include – France, Ireland, the Breeders Cup, one of the big (and extremely valuable) end of term contests in the Far East...
That's one of my pet peeves, retiring horses with extremely high rankings, after a truncated short career.
Surely he’ll notch up a sequence prior to heading to the Cheltenham Foxhunters. And cor blimey I can see interest in the CGC being at an all time low as everyone will be focussed on Long Run in the next heat. Then perhaps another attempt at the Grand National. And we all know that nobody rides that course better than Long Run’s probable Corinthian jockey...
You think it's debatable that we have the best turf horses? Anything from a mile+ on turf, we aren't just the best in the world, ourselves, Ireland and France are light years ahead of the rest of the world. Frankel could have gone to France or Ireland il agree with that, but would a short trip over the water to beat the same horses he's already beaten over here really prove that much? As far as going further afield to America or Dubai. Most big turf middle distance G1s in these country's are dominated by European horses anyways. Our horses only go to those lands to mop up the over inflated prize money, it doesn't prove them to be a better horse, because the competition over there is substandard, and the main competition is usually from other European horses. Especially at the Breeders Cup in America, arguably the most overrated meeting in the world. The BC Mile or BC Turf for example are not high class races, compared to the races we have over here. The best American horses don't even run on turf, it's a secondary surface for them, that's why Goldikova who was conquered many times over here, was so dominant out there, as there was nothing to beat. She didn't face anything near the quality of Zarkava, Makfi, Canford Cliffs and Dream Ahead out there, so it was easy money for her connections to pop over there and get a few million every year against easier opposition. Just because the prize money is higher out there it doesn't make the races of a higher quality, or more prestigious. It's like saying the Fed Ex Cup is the biggest Golf tournament because it's worth 10 million dollars. But we all know that's nonsense! Ravens Pass was slightly different as he took on the best dirt horses in America on a neutral synthetic surface, so he wasn't taking on 2nd rate American horse like Goldikova was, so hats off to him. Wether he'd of beaten Curlin had the race been on dirt, who knows. But he did have an American pedigree, so he may well have. Frankel despite his American name was not bred like Ravens Pass was to run in the Breeders Cup Classic, so you can't crab him for not running on dirt a surface he wasn't bred to run on. Frankel beat the best Turf horses of his generation, of that I am certain
You can't say Arkle was never exposed. He was exposed more than any other great horse. You can't compare Arkle with Frankel. It's like comparing a great tennis player with a great golfer.
True, but he wasn't exposed to the one horse who, arguably, was superior. Pity they were at the same stables, otherwise that one could have been put to bed.
