You are right there, it was on the Friday. I read that Budgett thought him a better horse than Blakeney, certainly a shame he didn't get chance to show it if that is the case. I'm not particularly knocking Morston as he could only beat who turned up, just think not much else turned up that year.
That could be said about Shergar. Nothing else turned up. The ante post favs dropped out. There wasn't one horse in his race that could have won any Derby. But you can only beat them easily. In Shergar's case he went on to beat all before him in the KG. It is a pity Morston didn't get that opportunity.
When I posted that i did think "I hope Ron does not think i have him in the liking Frankie camp". It wasn't meant like that so
No problem Rodd. I was a penniless student and was in the hall television room watching the day's racing. I thought it a poor race: didn't Sea Pigeon run in it? I thought anyone could win it so backed Morston but in doubles with a 'cert' in the Woodcote. There I was shouting it home and all those 'students' there thought I was a genius. Little did they know I'd been a right plonker, as the cert got beaten.
Glint Of Gold won 6 G1s after getting beat 10 lengths by Shergar. Shergar would have left any Derby field for dead that day
As I've said before Shergs, GOG was average at best, which goes to show what the rest were like. The number of G1s is irrelevant when the ones behind are below average. There have been loads of horses that could have beaten GOG by 10l. I'm not knocking Shergar; just re-iterating what I believed before and ever since that Derby.
Glint Of Gold raced 17 times, won 10 of them and was only out of the first 2 on 1 occasion. Most of his form was at the highest level aswell with 6 G1 victorys. So to brand him average is very harsh, as any trainer would love a horse with a record like he had. I know you like your timeform opinions aswell, and they rated him 128, so in their opinion he'd of won most Derbys. To say aswell that loads of horses could have beaten GOG 10 lentghs is hilarious! You are talking about a very solid group 1 performer here, who proved himself many times at the highest level. No other horse got anywhere near beating him 10 lentghs in his 3 seasons racing. Shergar was also eased up to beat him 10 lentghs which just goes to show what an outstanding performance he produced that day
It's irrelevant how many races he won Shergs because the opposition was not great. However I would agree wholeheartedly about his consistency and genuineness and I would have loved a horse like that. But to use him as a measure of greatness is, as you would say, "hilarious". To be fair though he might have faired better had they switched to Pat Eddery earlier. In 1981 he was rated the 9th best 3yo in Europe and in 1982 the 10th best horse of any age in Europe. I wouldn't go too much on what Timeform say. They often get it wrong
So a whole era of racing across Europe was sub standard, not just over here but in France and Ireland aswell, just so you can bring down the form of Shergar? Even in 1982 when Shergar had retired, Glint Of Gold was crowned champion middle distance horse in Europe, so 1982 must have also been a sub standard year by your logic. I've found out another interesting point in regards GOG, the furthest he was beaten in 17 races other than the Derby was 3 lengths in the 1982 King George, and that was by another horse beaten in Shergars Derby Kalaglow, who won the Eclipse that year aswell. So to say lots of horses could have beaten GOG 10 lengths is hilarious, as he raced in most of the top middle distance races across Europe for 2 seasons, and the furthest was 3 lengths except in the Derby. So by your logic the 1981 season was terrible, and so was the 1982 season. Just a freak 2 seasons of handicappers winning and running well in G1s, just so we can bring down the form of Shergar? I fail to understand why people can't just accept that Shergar was truly exceptional, and the form of his Derby was backed up by how the beaten horses performed afterwards, with lots of G1s coming from them
Why do you think I'm knocking Shergar Shergy? He can only beat what's there. When he won the Irish Derby he hardly got out of a canter. Clearly didn't stay beyond 12f as the jockey was showing distress signals fully 2 out in the St Leger. At least he had a go at it; unlike so many. We clearly have a different view on GOG though. He was honest, genuine, tough, consistent; a lovely horse. Shall we just agree to differ as to how good he was? I hate belittling a horse's form; they give everything. So I would rather say in general terms that I'm not fooled by the number of G1s a horse wins, or is second in. Quite often they are beating the same horses.
It has got to be a couple of years at least since we last had this pointless argument raised about how wonderful Glint Of Gold was because he won six Group 1 races during his career. No mention this time of him being Ian Balding’s second best horse. The fact that Shergar was exceptional is not disputed – that was why he won his races so easily. As a two year old, he won the Group 1 Gran Criterium in Milan at a time when Italian pattern races had their status solely on the grounds of prize money. On his previous start he was beaten at York in a non-pattern race. As a three-year-old he won the Derby Italiano in Rome for which he started odds on favourite against the home team in the first year that foreign horses were allowed to run. After following home Shergar at Epsom, he won the Grand Prix de Paris, which could at least be considered a proper Group 1 race as it was contested by some decent French horses! Failure to win the St Leger – although finishing in front of Shergar on Town Moor – saw him packed off to Germany for the Preis von Europa at Cologne, where the runner-up Czubaryk was from that horseracing colossus Poland. As a four-year-old, Glint Of Gold was beaten in the Jockey Club Stakes, the Coronation Cup, the Hardwicke Stakes and the King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes. On his ventures in Europe, he collected the Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud and the Grosser Preis von Baden. In an era when Italian and German racing did not enjoy any strength of depth, four of those six Group 1s were not Group 1 races in quality just prize money. At least the two French Group 1 victories came against opposition of reasonable merit. We can continue to ignore the round number of Group 1 victories in Britain because that does not fit the argument...
I don't think you can say Glint of Gold was just average. He was just off top-class. He'd have won 2 or 3 of the Derbies of the last 15 years but he wouldn't have been a good Derby winner. He was probably a stone+ behind Shergar and Shergar would have won most of the Derbies of the last 50 years. I would only rate Sea the Stars and Sea Bird as outstanding Derby winners alongside Shergar. I think Mill Reef would have given Shergar a really good race but probably on Derby Day wasn't as brilliant as Shergar. Sir Ivor, Nijinsky, Reference Point (a particular favourite of mine) and Nashwan probably couldn't have handled Shergar: as good as they were.
By saying his Derby was the weakest you've seen, is knocking the horse. The Leger was always a stupid race to run a horse as good as Shergar in. Wether his defeat was purely down to stamina issues I'm not entirely convinced. The winner of the Leger was Cut Above, who Shergar cantered all over in the Irish Derby, barely breaking sweat, and the 2nd was Glint Of Gold who as we know Shergar beat easily at Epsom. So would those extra couple of furlongs really see the form comprehensively reversed like it was? I'm far from convinced. I just feel Shergar had run his race that season, and wasn't right on the day. Fair enough the Italian and German races may not have been that strong, but if Glint Of Gold was attracted to run because of the prize money, who's to say other horses from France and the UK didn't contest some of those races. I think it's dangerous to just assume all 4 G1 victorys away from France where of poor standard without knowing the facts. Afterall as you've accepted yourself GOG was good enough to win G1s in France which are usually strong contests. You like to mention Glint Of Golds defeats, but fail to mention that he wasn't beaten far in any of them bar the Derby, whilst as you've pointed out contesting plenty of top level G1 races, with 10 victorys 6 seconds and 1 third. Never finishing out of the first3. His furthest defeat was a 3 length loss in the King George finishing 3rd. You also mention the Coronation Cup where he lost out by just half a length. He won other Group races aswell, winning the Great Voltiger by 3 lentghs under a 7 pound G1 penalty. So as Bustino has pointed out he was a very good horse, and could have won some Derbys. He wasn't the handicapper that some would try and have us believe. I'm not saying he was a superstar, but he was certainly very useful at G1 level. There is no disputing that! Shergar aswell pulled 15 lengths clear in his Derby triumph, and it only ended up at 10 lengths because he was heavily eased for the last half furlong, and considering no horse flat out could beat GOG by more than 3, it should give you and everyone else a fair idea that Shergar was a superstar
New Approach was a class act, there is no doubt about that, but he didn't show his best in the Derby thanks to pulling very hard early on. Had New Approach had a better temperament he'd of won with more authority. He was kind of lucky that there was nothing of any real quality in his Derby, as he may not have gotten away with pulling hard had there been. The horse he beat by half a length Tartan Bearer had many goes at G1 company afterwards, but couldn't win one. On New Approaches day he was superb though, his run in the Champion Stakes, when everything finally clicked into place for him was a special performance, smashing the Newmarket track record by the equivalent of 4 lengths. That day we finally seen what New Approach could do when he settled nicely, and I wouldn't of fancied many horses to have gotten anywhere near him. A minority opinion probably, but in terms of talent New Approach was as good as anything I've seen for 30 years with the exception of Frankel. It's just ashame he didn't have a better temperament
That is nonsense Shergs and taken out of context I agree with that. Agreed. I can't imagine anyone would refer to GOG as a handicapper; that's just cruel. Nicely summarised. I agree 100% Shergs
Mercer, who rode Cut Above in the Leger, said Shergar was making a horrible gurgling sound as he went past him. He might not have stayed but it could be he had developed a wind problem and that's what Mercer heard..
I was just about to raise the question of why Dancing Brave wasn't included among great Derby winners ................... I'll get mi coat
