Brendan Rodgers sack watch

[Christiansmith]

Six point improvement from 64 to 70.

You would have needed 79 or 80 points to qualify in 2013-14.

We've moved from 75 points under Fatso to 82 in 2014 and 87 in 2015 under Jose. I hope we can continue the trend to 92 in 2016 <biggrin>

What sort of points total would be satisfactory? I would be disappointed if Chelsea did not get in the 80s again.

I was hoping when Jose came back we would get three or four 80+ points seasons out of him and a couple of league titles

LVG can only play against the teams as they are in the league and not some fanciful teams in 2013-14. If he had achieved 79 points but failed to get 4th he would have failed and fully deserved to get some stick IMO.
He was given the task of getting 4th at least and he's done that. In the end the RS made his task much easier than he expected (RS in much bigger trouble than we all thought. . )

On the last point, interesting that good attacking winning and entertaining football never appears on any Chelsea fan wish list. It does not matter if all the crowd goes to sleep with boring football as long as they get 3 points

 

[Chief]

LVG can only play against the teams as they are in the league and not some fanciful teams in 2013-14. If he had achieved 79 points but failed to get 4th he would have failed and fully deserved to get some stick IMO.
He was given the task of getting 4th at least and he's done that. In the end the RS made his task much easier than he expected (RS in much bigger trouble than we all thought. . )

On the last point, interesting that good attacking winning and entertaining football never appears on any Chelsea fan wish list. It does not matter if all the crowd goes to sleep with boring football as long as they get 3 points

Not all of us. The clairvoyants out there knew Liverpool wouldn't challenge.

The points total is relative to how the rest of the league performs so it's not the crucial thing, final league position is. That's the bottom line.
We got there, just about, so need to kick on next year, fourth is good enough for one season but isn't anything to shout about and I expect us to be challenging for the league and finishing in the top two next season.

Couple of additions and tweaks to the squad and we will, no reason at all why not.

 

[Christiansmith]

Not all of us. The clairvoyants out there knew Liverpool wouldn't challenge.

The points total is relative to how the rest of the league performs so it's not the crucial thing, final league position is. That's the bottom line.
We go there, just about, so need to kick on next year, fourth is good enough for one season but isn't anything to shout about and I expect us to be challenging for the league and finishing in the top two next season.

Couple of additions and tweaks to the squad and we will, no reason at all why not.

For this season, despite the early optimism of some here, I said I would be happy with a CL place. Anything else would be a bonus. I was being realistic despite the huge amount of money spent.

For next season, I think challenging for the top 2 is not ambitious enough. LVG has to be tasked to win the title +/or a knockout trophy. Challenging is too vague to set as a standard. At some point, when we were 8 points behind the leaders, LVG was claiming we were still in contention. Rubbish. We were never in it at any stage.

United have to buy the necessary players this summer to win the title and make a good fist of the CL (unlike that humiliating capitulation by Brenda in the group stage). The GGs will probably need to spend between 150m and 200m but that's peanuts compared to the massive returns they will see when United return to the top.

 

[UnitedinRed]

It was pretty obvious if you had watched liverpool at any point in the season that they lacked in just about every department. Couldn't score, couldn't defend, couldn't create.

Still, it winds you up you angry mug. Positives and all that.

 

[UnitedinRed]

For this season, despite the early optimism of some here, I said I would be happy with a CL place. Anything else would be a bonus. I was being realistic despite the huge amount of money spent.

For next season, I think challenging for the top 2 is not ambitious enough. LVG has to be tasked to win the title +/or a knockout trophy. Challenging is too vague to set as a standard. At some point, when we were 8 points behind the leaders, LVG was claiming we were still in contention. Rubbish. We were never in it at any stage.

United have to buy the necessary players this summer to win the title and make a good fist of the CL (unlike that humiliating capitulation by Brenda in the group stage). The GGs will probably need to spend between 150m and 200m but that's peanuts compared to the massive returns they will see when United return to the top.

If he was to win the fa cup and finish 5th he will have failed. Top 2 and a good CL run. Any cup run is a bonus but wont matter if the above isnt achieved.

If he cracks the anti football code of Chelsea and relegation sides, theres no reason why not.

 

[Swarbs]

On the last point, interesting that good attacking winning and entertaining football never appears on any Chelsea fan wish list. It does not matter if all the crowd goes to sleep with boring football as long as they get 3 points

Aye, even West Ham aspire to play attractive, attacking football, bizarre how Chelsea fans are so happy to grind their way to success year after year.

Tho' it will be interesting to see if Roman reverts to type and goes "Right, now you have won the league by spending loads and playing defensively, you must now play attractive football and buy only the players I want". He sank Mourinho and Ancelotti with that approach before, will he have learned that the bus can't change its gearbox by now?

 

[Chief]

It was pretty obvious if you had watched liverpool at any point in the season that they lacked in just about every department. Couldn't score, couldn't defend, couldn't create.

Still, it winds you up you angry mug. Positives and all that.

The fact you're a smug **** with a false sense of entitlement and you can't spot the fact most of the rest of the board laughs at your inane bollocks is 'the positives'.

And all that.

You couldn't have at all confidently predicted that Liverpool wouldn't pick up on our obvious failings, not 100%. Yet you sit there acting like we are the idiots for being slightly concerned at how utterly ****e we played in closing out the season because, like, you and lvg just knew it would happen,

You prick.

 

[Chief]

For this season, despite the early optimism of some here, I said I would be happy with a CL place. Anything else would be a bonus. I was being realistic despite the huge amount of money spent.

For next season, I think challenging for the top 2 is not ambitious enough. LVG has to be tasked to win the title +/or a knockout trophy. Challenging is too vague to set as a standard. At some point, when we were 8 points behind the leaders, LVG was claiming we were still in contention. Rubbish. We were never in it at any stage.

United have to buy the necessary players this summer to win the title and make a good fist of the CL (unlike that humiliating capitulation by Brenda in the group stage). The GGs will probably need to spend between 150m and 200m but that's peanuts compared to the massive returns they will see when United return to the top.

I didn't say aim for top two, I said challenge for the league and finish in the top two.

The aim is to win it but it's a massive statement to say anything other than winning it isn't good enough. That's a big step up from where we just ended. Because we ended a huge distance from 1st.

 

[Christiansmith]

I didn't say aim for top two, I said challenge for the league and finish in the top two.

The aim is to win it but it's a massive statement to say anything other than winning it isn't good enough. That's a big step frim where we just ended. Because we ended a huge distance from 1st.

I get your point. But in the normal state of affairs, not winning the title is failure wherever you're coming from if you are United

LVG has now had one full season, he has been able to assess the players and which ones can play to his system (s) and he will be given money to acquire the players who can if he is not happy with the ones here.

The excuses which I and others had for him no longer apply. He will have a full summer to build a title winning team at huge expense and if he doesn't do it next season I can't see how he will do it the one after next. It is a bit like the RS keeping Brenda after this season: What will change ? Will Lovren and Lallana suddenly become world class? Will *****let become a top GK ?

United will have to win the title or equivalent to show they are back at the top. Being near is simply not good enough

 

[UnitedinRed]

The fact you're a smug **** with a false sense of entitlement and you can't spot the fact most of the rest of the board laughs at your inane bollocks is 'the positives'.

And all that.

You couldn't have at all confidently predicted that Liverpool wouldn't pick up on our obvious failings, not 100%. Yet you sit there acting like we are the idiots for being slightly concerned at how utterly ****e we played in closing out the season because, like, you and lvg just knew it would happen,

You prick

Smug, sense of entitlement

I said Liverpool wouldnt be a concern. They weren't. Before our game they closed the gap to 2 points. That was as close as they got to top 4 all season and we blew them away at Anfield.

And slightly concerned some of you have bashed van Gaal at every opportunity simply because I quickly saw Moyes as the failure he was. Some of the ridiculously ott bollocks some have come out with was priceless.

But hey, if the 3 or 4 people you are talking about want to carry on being miserable sods, so be it. I wont be worried.

 

[Chief]

It's nothing to do with being miserable, it was an alarm that having secured top four, before actually securing it of course, there was an obvious drop in impetus.
Like it was job done, that'll do.
Do you think that bodes well? I don't, it's a worrying sign.

To arrogantly suggest it was obvious that Liverpool would never challenge is just mad, yeah they turned out to be pitiful but they weren't that far behind at the time.

Some of the stuff served up this season was dross, equally as bad as the ****e you savaged Moyes for last season.
Yet van Gaal is, to you, beyond any criticism. Some of it was good too, and he got due credit for that from everyone.

Your attitude last season didn't sit well with me and it's run into this season, your entitlement was that this bloke wasn't worthy and deserved the abuse and your smugness was when he got the sack.
He was an honest bloke in above his head trying to do his job, no other United fan I know felt and acted like you.
It's disturbing the way his sacking was celebrated.

I've judged van Gaal on face value, nothing more or less. He deserves his second season for completing part one of the job but he's a long way to go. If he wins the league next season I'll accept him as a genius as it'll take some improvement.

 

[UnitedinRed]

Ive called van Gaal on many occasions for some of our awful play at times. All teams have bad games but when its more games than not, as it was under Moyes then patience quickly wears out.

Some of you would have kept Moyes purely for the sake of not sacking him because its apparently not the United way. As if accepting failure and ineptitude just to get on a pedestal. Some even tried to compare Fergie in 1986 to Moyes. Incredible.

Had LvG failed as Moyes did. I wouldn't be backing him at all. He didnt fail. He achieved the minimum target and thats acceptable this season.

And yes, the end of the season was a concern. It continued to show our struggles against anti football sides. When the opposition come to play, theres only one winner, when they come to stifle, we look lost and at times, clueless.

Its something van Gaal needs to address if hes to be a success.

 

[Chief]

I can't speak for the some that you're referring to but I wouldn't have kept Moyes to maintain the 'United way' but I would have much prefered the club supported him with cash in the same way they have van Gaal.

Yes, I know your think he dawdled in the market but I happen to completely disagree with how you see it. He identified Herrera, the club wouldn't pay the money so he missed out and it's van Gaal who has now benefitted from that.
Van Gaal has been given a blank cheque and massive credit for scraping fourth, Moyes was given too little too late and slated for struggling.

Both should have been supported equally.

 

[UnitedinRed]

Moyes was supported well in the market. Around 70million. We still carried Vidic, Rio, Evra, Giggs etc under Moyes though. They were gone under van Gaal so more money was available for wages.

I do believe he dawdled though. Yes mistakes were made by Woodward and others too. Woodward showed he was capable in January by seeling a deal for Mata. Moyes was known for dithering at Everton.

I was harsh on him. Very harsh in the end. He didnt help at all.

 

[Treble]

I'm with Christian on this. But what I will say is that however you cut it, whether it's where we finish, cup runs, trophies won etc, 99% of us will just "know" whether we've had a good season or not. We'll all know whether LVG has done enough or not.


...and the other 1% will say he's brilliant regardless

 

[Chief]

He got Fellini in the very last second of the summer window and Mata as a parting gift when it was more or less too late.

Not supported sufficiently, however you might like to paint it.

I'm glad you now accept he was carrying Vidic, Ferdinand and Giggs (and Evra) and that they weren't in fact the answer, as previously claimed.

 

[Swarbs]

He got Fellini in the very last second of the summer window and Mata as a parting gift when it was more or less too late.

Not supported sufficiently, however you might like to paint it.

I'm glad you now accept he was carrying Vidic, Ferdinand and Giggs (and Evra) and that they weren't in fact the answer, as previously claimed.

True, but then he did dawdle throughout a lot of the summer window, including umming and ahhing for ages over Fabregas and Alcantara then getting neither, looking at Herrera and not being sure, and waiting until after Fellaini's buyout clause expired before making a move. The club didn't help him much, but then the club were used to having a decisive manager who identified one target, went out there and bought them, not for a manager who was used to having to settle for what was available.

I think a lot of the problems Moyes had stemmed from the unspoken pressure he felt to carry on where SAF left off, with the same players, approach etc and not change things up too much. He should have set out to be his own man from day one and lived or died own his own terms rather than trying to continue a legacy he had no part in building.

That's the main thing LVG has over Moyes imo - he plays the way he wants to play, buys the players he wants, and will live and die by whether he succeeds. No excuses.

 

[Tobes]

Moyes was out of his depth irrespective of the money he was or wasn't given. He was never comfortable in the hot seat at OT and it was written all over his face.

Add to that the obvious player snideness from the likes of Camel gob behind his back, and he was ****ed before he had chance to make his mark.

 

[Chief]

True, but then he did dawdle throughout a lot of the summer window, including umming and ahhing for ages over Fabregas and Alcantara then getting neither, looking at Herrera and not being sure, and waiting until after Fellaini's buyout clause expired before making a move. The club didn't help him much, but then the club were used to having a decisive manager who identified one target, went out there and bought them, not for a manager who was used to having to settle for what was available.

I think a lot of the problems Moyes had stemmed from the unspoken pressure he felt to carry on where SAF left off, with the same players, approach etc and not change things up too much. He should have set out to be his own man from day one and lived or died own his own terms rather than trying to continue a legacy he had no part in building.

That's the main thing LVG has over Moyes imo - he plays the way he wants to play, buys the players he wants, and will live and die by whether he succeeds. No excuses.

Van Gaal has also had a convenient buffer zone between him and Fergie. No pressure in immediately following him. So much more straightforward to rebuild.

Moyes, however, had a big call to make. Go in balls out and tear up a squad that had just won the league and rebuild? If he fails he's crucified.
Or, stick with that squad, even though it patently needs refreshing, and try to quietly feel his way in?

In the end he made the wrong call, stuck with the squad and instead changed to his own staff. A mistake but, for **** sake, he's just been promoted to the biggest job in his league and to be script perfect is a massive ask.

That squad then let him down. The job was too big but he got no help.

 

[weararedbonnet]

End of term report is an improvement, but still requires more effort for next season. Some of our performances were well below an acceptable level, (Everton,, Leicester and Burnley away, and West Brom and Swansea at home) The acceptable level aw the games against City, Liverpool and Spurs were more of the style expected, and the loss at Chelsa was one where the better side lost.

Yes, its an improvement on last year, BUT we are not anywhere near the levels expected to win the premiership, let alone winning anything in Europe. A lot depends on summer signings,. Will wait with bated breath to see who we might sign, and even more importantly, if all the new players can gel together.