Off Topic Theresa May - End of Dissent

Sisu where do you think people get there morals and ethics? Do you think we develop them based on environment and upbringing? Or are we born with morals?

It is of course the former and ones set of morals and ethics changes varying on the individuals experience which is largely determined by the region of the world the individual lives in, the culture they are brought up in and what is seen as socially acceptable within there community and media.

It is genuinely ridiculous to claim there is no such thing as a shared set of values or morals within a society. That principle is the whole basis on which civilisation has been built.

 

Whether I am wrong or not depends upon whether you believe that you cannot develop a culture based upon values. I clearly think you can as if an individual is exposed to a differing set of values in an organisation they either conform to them or leave. Look at the successes in equality and diversity, although there is clearly more that can be done.

As for Godwin's law, I'm not surprised that you don't know it as you invoke it in most of your posts. Just so you know it's an Internet adage that irrespective of the topic of an online discussion sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

 

We are not born with morals. Parents can have a good or bad impacts on our morals. We are neither born with religion: most of the time
children follow their parents religion without question. The saying goes "show me your friends , and I would tell you the kind of person you are".
When we are older the type of company we keep can change our lives either for good or bad.

 

I believe that was the point he was making.

 

"It is genuinely ridiculous to claim there is no such thing as a shared set of values or morals within a society"

Really, it's so irritating when people paraphrase and make up an imaginary argument, you are using language to try squirm out of your incorrect assumptions. You formerly linked culture and values "Don't be so ridiculous Sisu of course certain attributes can be described as British values, or Spanish values, or Italian values etc based on cultural leanings towards certain ways of thinking or key things people in those countries hold dear"


Now you are talking about "It is genuinely ridiculous to claim there is no such thing as a shared set of values or morals within a society" which I never said and which is also a different thing altogether. People share values because their ethical and moral positions are the same, things like tolerance of other religions for example, is not a value owned by any national. Repsect for others who respect you, again nothing to do with any national identity. Integrity ditto.

To make a point of your "shared values". You can have different values from the guy living next door. The only thing shared by people in a society are social rules, which are totally different from values. Personal "values" which is such an ambiguous term btw, don't always match up to the social rules even if one does abide by them.

Do me a favour, list British values for me

 

I'm not making up an imaginary argument, my reply was not just in response to your comments RE my original comment but also in response to the swathe of posts since.

You say that the reason people within a society share values is because they share a moral and ethical position, so where do they develop this moral and ethical position? You haven't answered my question: Do we develop morals and ethics based on upbringing and environment? Or are we born with them? Because if you think it's the former then you accept that culture and geographic location have a baring on an individuals set of morals and ethics which you suggest forms there values, ergo people share a set of values based on society and culture.

 

Morals are the result of logical reasoning. "If I would not like that then they would not" which determines what's right or wrong, if you would not like that then others surely would not like it. "Ethics" are moral philosophy to examine the validity of morals. You can have morals without ethics and so, you do not apply the same morality to others that you expect yourself, selective morality is a result of having no ethics. It is the most common kind of morality unfortunately.

Neither have anything to do with culture and national identity. Environment is key and environments vary from street to street and house to house in any given country FFS



I am astounded by the ridiculous arguments to say they are otherwise.

 

Respect
Tolerance

I don't think anyone is suggesting that values cannot vary from house to house and street to street, what is being said is that on the whole there are a lot of people in the country that share similar values such as tolerance and respect. These are examples of what I would say are British values.

 

So there's no such thing as National identity then?

Yeah right oh....

 

Listen mate someone asked the question so I answered it. I accept many of the points you've said but if you dont think this country and its people are tolerant you should try living elsewhere...you dont have to go far try France. There arw things we arent often proud of BUT tolerance is one of them. Britain is very tolerant and rightly so.

Greeks also invented Oligarchy, doesnt mean Russia isnt one. Likewise democracy can be a British value...even though we may not do it very well.

 

Does this man have no self awareness?

Anyway, as per usual sisu is coming from the right place in that this is an attack on free speech and therefore thinking. It is good that he is now appears to defend the right to free speech so vigorously although I am now slightly confused about his MORALS.

In order to clarify if he is truly a believer of free speech (and not just some keyboard warrior jumping on the next ranting band wagon) could somebody just ask him if he now feels one of his recent rants was maybe too emotionally charged and in the cold light of day he may have been wrong and he would now reverse that decision.

Remember it was where he said he would ban people, criminalize them through "hate speech" legislation, label them as anti semetic, all because they have a different view of the holocaust.

So is this still the case?

 

Genuinely unimpressed with most of the Labour leader candidates but have to say I like the genuine passion Jeremy Corbyn shows. Seems like a genuine bloke who believes in something rather than a spin merchant like most. Shame he is a PR disaster and will be crucified by modern day politics :-(

Btw realise this is little to do with Theresa May but is about the future of Britain.

 

I thought Katie Hopkins had dyed her hair brown when I heard Liz Kendall doing her Daily Mail, welfare bashing pitch. Swear I heard Mandelson and Murdoch purring in the wings.

 

Why have you changed your user name?

 

To shake the lizard people off my trail. I am close to revealing the truth about the flat earth and they wish to stop me.

 

They'll have to get in the queue behind me and the dark matter lads

 

You can spot all the leftwing commies here

 

Well played Sir


Dark matter is all but dead mate with the latest in plasma physics, there is no need for invisible non radiating imaginary matter when there is so much plasma in space

Also the big bang is religion, creation out of nothing, not science.

 

How would you know, when was the last tme you took any political action? did you even vote ?
You treat politics like sports rivalry, many people do these days, who cares about policies and reality when labels and apathy will do just as well

 

I aways vote
Last time it was UKIP.

The thing with British values is we are not allowed them, as it may offend a few people and the looney left will not allow that